ItsJustMe

Here as well, but I would love to be able to ride there. The "shoulders" on the interstates are a full 16 feet wide and I have never seen any vehicles on them except for emergency vehicles during traffic jams. By contrast, some of the roads that I ride on that are parallel to the expressway are 50 MPH speed limit (people drive 60 MPH, not that much slower than what's on the interstate), there is NO shoulder (the white paint touches gravel, sometimes after a 3 inch drop), the roads are in bad shape, patched and messed up, 2 lanes, no opportunity to pass when there's oncoming traffic present.

IMO riding on the interstate shoulder in many cases would be far safer.

Digital_Cowboy

+1,000,000

And then those same cyclists wonder why it is so difficult in getting anything positive done for cycling. Who wants to "reward" bad behavior?

Digital_Cowboy

Thank you, that certainly did not look like any alley cat race, so let's see how this gets spun into a positive.

lostarchitect 

No accidents were caused. No near misses were seen. Everybody had clear line of sight. Nobody cut anybody off. None of the cars stopped either. Everyone yielded when they needed to. The one guy who stopped did so as a joke because it was clearly not necessary.

This is actually a really good example of a spot where it's perfectly fine to just look and go.

Not sure what alley cat races have to do with it.

scott967

I've ridden freeways at times and it worked well, main problem being offramps and onramps.

scott s.
.

FullGas

yep, riders are obviously checking for traffic and seeing none, proceeding onward.

the law-and-order fanatics having an aneurysm over this is entertaining.

genec

Yeah but heck, everyone went through that stop, even the cars. Do notice that nearly everyone went through at about the same speed... obviously some sort of great sight line or some other traffic control quirk.

Miele Man

Also notice that the vast majority never even slowed down. That's "Blowing a stop sign". It's a STOP sign not a YIELD sign and therefore those bicyclists and motorists should have slowed down.

You guys can argue it all you want to but it's a fact that there are a number of bicyclists who do blow through stop signs and red lights without slowing down. Just like there are a lot of bicyclists who ride at spoeed on sidewalks evnen narow ones where pedestrians are walking or exiting stores. It's also a fact that such behaviours alienate people against all bicyclist and increases their wish that bicyclists be licensed or banned. You advoctate for bicyclists but your "I don't need to follow the rules" behaviours are detrimental to all bicyclists.

Cheers

baron von trail 

IMO, what pisses drivers off and makes them hate cyclists more than anything are those buttheads who take the lane on a 55 mph road, holding up a line of cars as they pedal along at a leisurely 10 mph. A guy yielding at stop sighs and red lights not so much.

genec

"Not slowing down..." yeah, they were moving at what 10mph or so...

mr_bill

Do you know what it means to miss New Orleans?

Some folks just don't get it that there are people who have been more than one place.

Helpful hint - note the window cling (WWOZ). That stands for Wonderful Wizard of Oz:


-mr. bill

Leisesturm

What cling? Where?

Paul Barnard

I never argued that cyclists didn't blow them. You and DC asserted that cyclists often do it without looking. I argued that point. I also said that blowing stop signals can be done perfectly safely. Thank you for posting the video that proved my point.

mr_bill

There is *ONE* visible window! Facepalm:



-mr. bill

mr_bill

You think the pedestrian at ~0:27 agrees with you about stop signs? (Note the sarcastic "thank you" wave to the FOURTH operator of a vehicle who FINALLY yielded to the pedestrian.)

(BTW, notice anyone going around the rotary clockwise? I didn't think so.)

-mr. bill

Miele Man

i see a lot of posters here on A&S rationalizing and denying that bicyclists blow through stop lights and/or stop signs, ride the wrong way on a one way street , ride at speed on sidewalks when pedestrians are in very close proximity and so one. like i said I see these behaviour nearly every day and i've seen where motorists and/or pedestrians have had to yield their right of way and/or take evasive action ie. swerving to avoid hitting or being hit by the bicyclist. the point you all seem to be missing is that when motorists or pedestrians see or are victims of these scofflaw bicyclists it makes it even harder for any bicyclist or bicycling group to advocate equal rights on the roads. That's because those motorists and pedestrians don't want bicyclists near them a motorist or pedestrian doesn't see the scofflaw bicyclist checking their possible route. they see the bicyclist inconsiderately flaunting the rights of everyone else and demanding that come hell or high water that bicyclist is going through that intersection or on that sidewalk and everyone else had best get the hell out of their way. it's a wonder that more isn't being done to have bicyclists licensed or banned from downtown roads.

Evey time you blow a light or stop sign at an intersection where there are other road users or pedestrians and every time you blast down a downtown/shopping area sidewalk and force pedestrians to get out of your way you're not an advocate for bicyclists but you are a hindrance to advocates because you've given even more ammunition to the anti-bicyling crowd. you can rationalize your behaviours but blowing through stop lights and stop signs and riding at speed on busy sidewalks is irresponsible and dangerous to other road users. Denial isn't just a river in egypt.

Cheers

mr_bill

Nah. Nothing bad ever happens from blowing a red light. In Portland, not far away.... The light turns amber at 0:32, red at 0:35, the collision at 0:44, TWELVE SECONDS AFTER THE AMBER, NINE SECONDS AFTER THE RED.

Maybe we need big SIGNS that say "HEY, PAY ATTENTION TO THIS ONE!"


-mr. bill

genec

The key phrases there are "other road users" and "get out of your way." If you "blast through" a red light or stop sign and no one else is around... then it just doesn't matter, does it?

Thus laws like the Idaho stop law really do make sense. As long as you are not infringing on the rights of others... does your stop/non stop matter?

Equinox

Way back, someone said that this issue can't be resolved on an internet forum because of the diversity of our riding circumstances. I've been paying attention, and where I ride and how I ride, I violate way more than I obey. And it is completely safe to myself and others. It would be ridiculous to stop at some of the red lights and stop signs I encounter. If I rode in a different environment, I'm sure it would be completely different. I've given up on my role as a cycling advocate long ago. Drivers will never accept us and they will always be hostile no matter how we ride. Harsh, but true. We should not deliberately antagonize drivers, but we should disavow ourselves of the notion that drivers will like us if we follow the rules. My whole point in starting this thread was to speak out against the falsehood that cyclists run red lights without checking. That's suicide. It does not happen or happens extremely rarely with the result being an injured or dead cyclist, which we are not seeing. There are plenty of dead and injured cyclists as a result of interactions with cars, but not for that reason.

Jaywalk3r

Why slow down if one can verify the way is clear to proceed without doing so, while still allowing oneself sufficient stopping distance if the way isn't clear? From 20 mph, I need less than 20 feet to come to a complete stop. If I can verify the way is clear before I am 20 feet from the intersection, then there is no reason to slow down at all before proceeding safely through the intersection.

baron von trail 

Well, then the way to handle that would be to say, "I've been there, know the area, rode my bike down that very street. There's a better way. Let me tell you about it..."

kickstart

If the ability to get away with something makes it OK, then we are OK with this standard for all road users disregarding any law they can get away with?

caloso

Yeah, that's just stupid signage. The whole point of a traffic circle is to keep traffic moving. Outside vehicles yield to inside vehicles.

JoeyBike

^^This is how it works where I live. 1 to 5 cars keep going after a light turns red, right on red after stop NEVER happens if the coast is clear, everybody speeds, stop signs are useless. Motorists and cyclists all go when they CAN go. The only difference is that motorist who actually do end up stopped at a red light generally will not just run it when crossing traffic clears. Otherwise...it's just a 24/7 jail break. And you know what? We are all used to it and I for one am just fine with a little anarchy out there. People adjust. When I have to stop at a red light, when it goes finally green I just ASSUME that more cars are going to go across. I do not proceed until all of the crossing lanes have a car stopped at the light.

So yes...I am OK with this standard.

FullGas

that's pretty much how things are anyway.