gegarrenton

So I've able to actually go over the bike finally. My best guess at the moment is a pre 72 TdF. Someone has replaced the stem with an SR for some reason, so that is an obvious outlier. It has Campy dropouts, so I guess the remaining question is whether it is a repurposed SC frame or a TdF with Campy. Hopefully will be able to pull head set this week and check headtube material.

Still have no idea how this Campy GranSport stuff got on here.

It is a 60cm frame, good call on that francophile

francophile 

In the words of one retro commercial .... " The world may never know"

(like, for real, I don't think there's any realistic way to differentiate the SC and TdF except by the decals, and your bike is missing 95% of its decals)

LeicaLad 

I have both a 1971 TdF that I bought brand new in 1971, and a "garage queen" 1971 Super Corsa. The bikes are essentially identical, except that the SC has Campy dropouts. In late '71 and '72 there were a few TdF frames that showed up with Campy dropouts, but these were unusual. The other differences between the two were entirely on the components. The SC always came with a Campy headset and the TdF had the Stronglight P3 headset. Evidence would suggest this is one of those rarer TdF frames. My SC came with Campy brakes and does not have the rear brake hanger, but many S.C. did have the hanger. The limited photos suggest this is either late '71 or a 1972. Post more photos of the head tube, the fork crown, and the fork ends, please.

Whatever, if this frame fits you, count your blessings. I have a number of bikes, but the '69-'72 Gitanes, whether TdF or SC, are among the nicest riding frames you will ever find. If you don't like it, drop me a note.

Otherwise, congratulations.

Owen

francophile 

Ditto!

Hey Owen, quickie for you: On your SC, the rear brake bridge, is it rolled, as in, is there a seam on the underside, or is it totally round steel?

To see what I'm talking about, check the 2nd-to-last pic in this album showing my TdF and my "probably-SC" bare frame: https://imgur.com/a/vGwGM

The bare frame came with Stronglight crankset, Campy headset, Campy brakes although the seller gave me some MAFAC Competitions too, otherwise similar bits you got with your SC.

LeicaLad 

No, they're both the same. That is one of the distinct weaknesses of the Gitane frames. The bridge can be easily damaged by over-tightening. But, that little item aside, they're still great riding frames.

The forks often have different decals, too. The TdF had its own fork decal, while the SC was rather generic looking (the decal). The fork crowns did vary between years, tho.

Cheers!

francophile 

My blue TdF definitely rides well. At minimum, we see it has a different lugset, short-point Bocama. Both are otherwise nearly identical geometry. I expect the other will ride great.

Need to make some decisions this winter about how I want to load up the bare frame. This post has given me some ideas, I think I may only splurge on the head tube, hand-brazed, Reynolds and fork blade decals, and go with a metallic orange. Cleaner look.

LeicaLad 

Did it come with other "little" bits, like cable guides, chainstay guides, etc.? The SC had Campy bits, the TdF had French bits. But, in the end, there is essentially no difference. Same tubes, same builders.

I like your idea of going clean. Sunkist Orange would be very attractive. imho, obviously.

: -)
Cheers1

LeicaLad 

Back to original post: No photo of hubs, but the skewer is a Tipo. Parts aren't that important. Like everyone, I started changing parts on my TdF from the moment I could afford to. I suggest the nicest tires you can afford, and the fattest that will fit on those rims. Any better RD that you like. Who cares about accuracy on Gitanes? No one.

Build it. Ride it. You'll love it.

I'm off. Cheers!

gegarrenton

Cheers, yes, very happy this just fell in my lap. Total luck.

I'm pretty sure this is a 71 at the latest, it has the Nervex Professional fork crown. Will definitely snap some pics though when I have a second.

According to verktyg, the head tube on TdF frames was seamed tube and not Reynolds, so this should be apparent once the head set is pulled. Other than that, I'm pretty sure there is no other way to tell the TdF and SC apart.

Thanks again to all for the help, brought me up to speed way faster than I ever could have hoped!!!

gegarrenton

They are later model Campy hubs. Some Fiamme wheels too.

LeicaLad 

Well, I'd say '71 at the earliest. The '69 & '70 specimens that I've seen have little signature details that stand out, starting with just a bit better workmanship. There were no mixup of parts in that period, as this only began in late '71 and through to early '74 because of the US bike boom and production crunches.

Chas knows a lot about Gitanes and I do cherish his vast archive of detailed notes, but . . . we do not always agree. For some years, he insisted that if it had a P-3 headset, it was a TdF because Gitane made the TdF forks differently and too short (in stack height) to accept a Campy headset. I've seen from the linked post (dated in 2013) that this argument is still up. Bulls**t. We had a number of exchanges after that lengthy post. Among other things, I sent him a photo of my TdF with it's Campy headset that I installed. There were some European models, and later models, of Gitanes that had only 3-tube 531 frames. Maybe those have split/seamed headtubes, but my TdF sure as hell doesn't.

My '71 Super Corsa, complete with all of it's original decals, when compared see the only distinctions between it and my '71 TdF as merely the dropouts, the rear brake hanger (not bridge), and the bits installed. Otherwise, they are Exactly the Same. I have two known frames with clear provenance so there is no confusion.

I'd still say your frame is more likely a '72. And, I'll still say, it really doesn't matter whether it's a TdF or SC. You can build it up however you please.

gegarrenton

Oh, no doubt. I plan on building it out as I see fit.

Edit: One thing I'm pretty sure of though, is that the mixed up parts on this were from the previous owner, and not Gitane, fwiw.

LeicaLad 

per the Edit. Clearly the case. That's why you overlook the stuff that was easily changed, like derailleurs, stems, etc., and note the ones that few owners ever bother with, like headset, seatpost bolt, and the small cable guides. For example, describe the seatpost bolt to me (or photos, please).

95% this began life as a TdF. And, from my experience, you can't tell 'em apart when you're riding them.

Cheers!

SJX426 

The Stronglight 93 will polish up very nicely, chrome llike.
Stronglight Cranks outside, on Flickr

gegarrenton

Few pics of seat bolt, fork crown and brake bridge.

LeicaLad 

Well, how nice. I take back what I said. This is very much 1971, at the latest. Possibly even late 1970. The fork crown is a major tell, but so are the touches on the seat cluster.

Now, that seat post bolt, I'm sure you will agree, is the ugliest d*mn thing you ever saw. I still have mine on my TdF. That, and two of the smallest cable guides, are the only original parts still on my TdF.
This tells me, for sure, that the frame began life as a TdF. The SC came with a Campy slotted seat post bolt. If someone needs, I'll take photos of mine.

But, we've all agreed that you be a lucky guy and will have a very nice riding bike when your build is done. Be sure to send photos of your build when you're ready.

Congrats, again!

Owen

gegarrenton

That seat post bolt sent me into an epileptic fit....

Yeah, I really thought the fork crown dated the bike from what I have seen.

Thanks again for all the help, build pictures will be forthcoming!