V-brakes vs. Cantilevers
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#28
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I just replaced my v-brakes ('94 Deore) with AVID Single Digit 7 linears. I can stop on the dime as they say.
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Other than 'cross applications I'm not a big cantilever fan. I think in all conditions v-brakes are superior. Cantilever's may provide more mud clearance in sticky gummy situations. But if it's really muddy rim brakes really aren't the best choice anyways. A disc is much superior in muddy conditions.
Cantilever and disc work by exactly the same principle. The functional difference there is more "internal leverage" on a V-Brake. The maintenance difference is that V-Brakes are just WAAAAAY easier to setup and adjust. The specification difference is that levers in stock drop bar levers are just more powerful than V-Brake style MTB levers.
There are some v brakes out there that have leverage appropriate for standard drop bar levers. They're called mini-vs and they have shorter arms. The penalty for these is it's hard to fit fenders underneath them. Cantis are better in conjunction with fenders as the arms flare out laterally.
Finally, are also MTB and drop bar levers that have have the leverage characteristic of the other. So you can use a drop bar lever with an MTB V-brake. You just need the right lever (no brifters, just levers). Either that, or you can use a Travel Adjuster which adjusts leverage/cable pull will a pully.
Why do cyclocross bikes ship stock with Cantilever brakes? I would suspect this is because cantilevers are compatible with brifters and larger tires ... period. This is what a cyclocross buyer would expect even if the bike shipped with bar end shifters.
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I think tourers like to be as simple as possible. With cantilever brakes, you can find replacement pads at any Wal-Mart. But then again ... disc brake pads last a LONG TIME and they're small enough to pack so ... It took me 2 years to wear out a stock pair of Avid BB7 brake pads. I know they have definitely made a dent in tandems where there vastly superior heat dissapation makes them clearly superior.
#32
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I'll be adjusting the cantis on my Cross build shortly.
Way harder than V-brakes.
So where are the original posters?
Way harder than V-brakes.
So where are the original posters?
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Last edited by worked; 04-18-11 at 08:52 PM.
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Still ticking after all these years
Okay, this thread is (maybe not quite as) relevant as ever. But I just picked up a Surly Cross Check -- a frame around when this thread started and still around today -- and came here for an answer to a variation on our now age-old question: If I switch from drop bars to flat bars, keeping stock brakes, what levers do I use?
My next question would be: Why do the stock Tektro Oryx brakes provide so little stopping power? I bought the bike -- a 2010 -- just slightly used. But the breaks seriously have little to no power. Would an adjustment and new brake shoes give me something worth bothering with? Since I rarely if ever ride in mud here in the semi-desert part of Colorado, my inclination is to give up on cantilevers entirely and go with TRP CX9 short-arm linear-pull cyclocross brakes. A little less clearance, a lot more stopping power, I hear. If I did that, what flat-bar levers would I use?
Those are general questions. Does anyone have specific, state-of-the-art but not-freakishly-expensive, recommendations for specific flat-bar brake-lever models to go with the Oryx cantis or the CX9 linear-pulls?
Thanks for the opportunity to participate in the World's Oldest Thread.
My next question would be: Why do the stock Tektro Oryx brakes provide so little stopping power? I bought the bike -- a 2010 -- just slightly used. But the breaks seriously have little to no power. Would an adjustment and new brake shoes give me something worth bothering with? Since I rarely if ever ride in mud here in the semi-desert part of Colorado, my inclination is to give up on cantilevers entirely and go with TRP CX9 short-arm linear-pull cyclocross brakes. A little less clearance, a lot more stopping power, I hear. If I did that, what flat-bar levers would I use?
Those are general questions. Does anyone have specific, state-of-the-art but not-freakishly-expensive, recommendations for specific flat-bar brake-lever models to go with the Oryx cantis or the CX9 linear-pulls?
Thanks for the opportunity to participate in the World's Oldest Thread.
#36
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V-brakes are easier to adjust and much easier to replace.
#38
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I'll be overjoyed when I pick up my new cross bike with canti's.
www.rodbikes.com/articles/brakes.html
www.rodbikes.com/articles/brakes.html
#39
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I do everything to my bikes and still suck at adjusting cantilevers. In 2007 I bought a cross check frame set and built it up for touring and commuting, went with V-brakes (full size brakes and v-brake specific road levers). After seeing the light, I replaced the cantilevers on my old mountain bike with v-brakes and the stopping power was night to day.
Cantilevers just really hard to get just right. Even when they're just right they still won't stop as well. V-brakes are so simple and straightforward in comparison. There's no straddle cable which is impossible to replace and strips easier, no little shoe that you need both a socket and another wrench to tighten properly, you just need one 5mm allen key to do everything.
Cantilevers just really hard to get just right. Even when they're just right they still won't stop as well. V-brakes are so simple and straightforward in comparison. There's no straddle cable which is impossible to replace and strips easier, no little shoe that you need both a socket and another wrench to tighten properly, you just need one 5mm allen key to do everything.
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This is why I first searched for info on why brand new cross bikes still use canti brakes. Everyone seems to have wildly different out comes and opinions on the matter though. I have a mountain bike with V-brakes, I'll buy a cross bike soon with cantis and decide on my own.
Daily rider is from the early 70's with old school dura-ace U-brakes, I use the suicide levers most of the time. I have managed to keep them tuned up well for over 5,000miles. Hopefully cantis on a 20xx cross bike with do me better. ;-)
Daily rider is from the early 70's with old school dura-ace U-brakes, I use the suicide levers most of the time. I have managed to keep them tuned up well for over 5,000miles. Hopefully cantis on a 20xx cross bike with do me better. ;-)
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I have a number of vintage MTBs and regularly ride a 88 Nishiki Ariel with Canti's on Rails to Trails gravel trails. Still, I wish I could convert it to V-brakes (rear brake a U brake, not the standard post positions). IMHO, V's stop much better than canti's and I'm including the set of XT canti's I have. I just changed our old 05' Rockhopper to disc from XT V's with Koolstops. There was no significant improvement in locking up the wheels, but the discs modulate MUCH better, so I don't regret the change. There were some after market canti's that were very good that I never had a chance to evaluate, but the original equipment stuff I've never found as sure at stopping compared to V's.
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#42
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This is why I first searched for info on why brand new cross bikes still use canti brakes. Everyone seems to have wildly different out comes and opinions on the matter though. I have a mountain bike with V-brakes, I'll buy a cross bike soon with cantis and decide on my own.
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As long as some of us are restoring older bikes, this thread is useful. I just got myself a Trek 950 and some of the things I'm considering changing are the cantilever brakes for vbrakes. On a side note, I'm also planning to build a set of lightweight rims and discovered that it is more difficult to get non-disc hubs and rims. Everyone seems to be jumping on the disc brakes bandwagon.
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Good to see older, relevant threads threads still alive.
"Use the search function" seems to be the mantra for some on most interweb forums, and this is a perfect case.
As far as the original question, here is my two pfennigs worth. It seems that cantis are popular with the CX crowd due to the shape of the brake arms keeping mud from getting quite so packed up in the brake area. I haven't had any practical experience in CX, but it seems to be the consensus, so there must be some credibility to it.
As for me, I hate canti brakes. I can't adjust them for the life of me, and they just didn't seem to stop as well as v-brakes. to me, v-brakes just work better, but then again, I don't ride in really muddy conditions.
"Use the search function" seems to be the mantra for some on most interweb forums, and this is a perfect case.
As far as the original question, here is my two pfennigs worth. It seems that cantis are popular with the CX crowd due to the shape of the brake arms keeping mud from getting quite so packed up in the brake area. I haven't had any practical experience in CX, but it seems to be the consensus, so there must be some credibility to it.
As for me, I hate canti brakes. I can't adjust them for the life of me, and they just didn't seem to stop as well as v-brakes. to me, v-brakes just work better, but then again, I don't ride in really muddy conditions.
#48
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Velocity rims + Travel Agents
svgeek,
Velocity produces a huge selection of various rims. Velocity even makes 27" but to get the huge selection its 700c. I went for big and durable on my 1985 Trek 720 fully loaded touring bike going for more substantial than original with Velocity Dyad 700c and 40 holes, which gave more clearance allowing 37mm tires. There are plenty of good non-disc hubs. My Trek is 126mm OLD .... you will find a cold set to 130mm or 135mm may need to be done on older bikes to accommodate new hub spacing.
I also have a Jamis Supernova cyclocross bike .... it had massive brake chatter caused by a carbon fork and cantilever brake under hard braking on the street. Solution was to replace front brake with a V-brake. This bike has SRAM B/rifters (20speed) .. I installed travel agents to pull more cable thru Shimano V-brake and it works just fine ... brake chatter gone and excellent braking.
I also have a Raleigh Alyeska Touring bike from mid 1980s (made in Japan maybe by Miyata) ... it has an incredibly nice ride. The frame is wonderful. With a disc brake comes a stiffer fork and a heavier bike. My Raleigh came with cantis but the hole configuration for the canti spring on the stud was a reverse from normal .... the brakes were inferior and I could not install most other brakes because of the reverse hole configuration. I eventually found that I could install Paul Motolite V-brakes as they do not use the stud holes to determine spring placement. I now have brake levers that pull more cable on this bike. Motolites are great brakes (but spendy) .... NO DISCS needed for me.
Velocity produces a huge selection of various rims. Velocity even makes 27" but to get the huge selection its 700c. I went for big and durable on my 1985 Trek 720 fully loaded touring bike going for more substantial than original with Velocity Dyad 700c and 40 holes, which gave more clearance allowing 37mm tires. There are plenty of good non-disc hubs. My Trek is 126mm OLD .... you will find a cold set to 130mm or 135mm may need to be done on older bikes to accommodate new hub spacing.
I also have a Jamis Supernova cyclocross bike .... it had massive brake chatter caused by a carbon fork and cantilever brake under hard braking on the street. Solution was to replace front brake with a V-brake. This bike has SRAM B/rifters (20speed) .. I installed travel agents to pull more cable thru Shimano V-brake and it works just fine ... brake chatter gone and excellent braking.
I also have a Raleigh Alyeska Touring bike from mid 1980s (made in Japan maybe by Miyata) ... it has an incredibly nice ride. The frame is wonderful. With a disc brake comes a stiffer fork and a heavier bike. My Raleigh came with cantis but the hole configuration for the canti spring on the stud was a reverse from normal .... the brakes were inferior and I could not install most other brakes because of the reverse hole configuration. I eventually found that I could install Paul Motolite V-brakes as they do not use the stud holes to determine spring placement. I now have brake levers that pull more cable on this bike. Motolites are great brakes (but spendy) .... NO DISCS needed for me.
#49
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I've got a 1995 Trek hybrid with cantis and a 2007 Trek hybrid with V-brakes. The "feel" and "power" of braking on these two bikes is literally a night-and-day difference! I plan to replace the cantis on the older bike with V-brakes ASAP.
Is it a given that a bike that has cantis will work with V-brakes? Are they completely interchangeable (I realize brake levers will need to be changed as well)?
Is it a given that a bike that has cantis will work with V-brakes? Are they completely interchangeable (I realize brake levers will need to be changed as well)?
#50
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How much better* will this thread be in two years when road disc brakes have made cantis irrelevant for cx and touring?
*Semantically better of course. It won't help this thread stop any faster.
*Semantically better of course. It won't help this thread stop any faster.