Adagio Corse

Let's just look at a typical BD bike that I considered a great deal: $1699 for a full carbon frame and Record Components, with Ritchey everything else, and top notch wheels/saddle. That same 10 piece Campy group sells on Ebay for $1600, add same wheels and components from ebay and you're already at $1900 without the frame. That's the sort of pricing clout he has. Pretty tough to beat.

Not saying you can't do it, but the reason he's able to get that clout is because there is NO customization, which allows high volume low overhead.

My solution? Titanium. If you can find a way to do this with Titanium, then you would have discovered value where BD has failed. They've mastered cheapo carbon and aluminum, but not Ti.

Adagio Corse

+1 I'm in complete agreement. The demand for components cover the entire pool of the bicycling community, whereas the demand for complete bikes in your target market is mostly beginners and frugal spenders - a significantly smaller community.

Volfy

There is nothing magical about Titanium. It is just as easy to weld as steel and aluminum. In fact, my good friend is a pipe welder at a chemical plant, and he was just telling me that Ti is, in some ways, easier to weld than steel and aluminum. Ti is much lighter weight that steel, so you can butt weld larger gaps without the puddle falling out like heavy steel. yet Ti doesn't conduct heat quite so well like Aluminum, so the work piece doesn't heat up as quickly as welding Al, which requires more amps to weld than steel. Ti does sometimes require secondary shielding gas to trail behind the main TIG gun, but I doubt that's the case with the small diameter tubing for bikes.

In short, manufacturering Ti bikes is more expensive, but I believe the only thing that keeps BD Mike from engaging that market segment is the size of the niche market. Next to Al, carbon, and a little bit of steel, Ti is a distant 4th in commercial volume. BD depends on volume for low pricing.

So in a sense, you are right. But do realize you are chasing after a tiny market niche and a tiny piece of the bike consumer cash pit.

indygreg

I am fairly sure he has looking into Ti, but has never pulled the trigger. I think the above poster is right, it is just about cost. It is a niche market and he would have problems selling enough bikes. Secondly, with builds like BD is known for (Ultegra, DA, record, Force, etc with decent parts) on their top bikes, this would probably go into the $2k range. I think the market of people who would shop BD really tops out around the $1500 point, but that is just a gut feeling.

BikeWise1

I hope you have lots and lots of money, because you apparently haven't done your homework.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but most bikes come in the door in the box at 36%. 40% tops, and then you have to build it and sell it and possibly maintain for free for few years. Guess what the break even margin of most shops is? That's right! 36%. A brick 'n' mortar who sells only bikes will be in business about as long as the owner's capital holds out.

The guys that have it together enough to pull off something like what the OP is considering attempting don't post it on internet forums....

Mike is in it for the long haul. He's got plenty of capital and has been in this biz a long time. I would imagine he is friendly enough with enough suppliers that an upstart would have little chance competing with him on his own turf.

Vertr

What is with the unnecessary hostility? You act like I shot your dog or something. I was merely asking for opinions, not biting sarcasm and a condescending attitude.

jimx200

No. With Performance you get a company that has been in business for 25 years, employs a few hundred people (benefits, yada yada), a 800 number (and someone to answer it), quite a number of bike stores with decently priced products and good choices, pretty much name brand items, good customer service and a good repair shop (Sacramento, Howe Ave. store..thanks guys), a fine return policy, "bonus bucks" on new purchases, and even though a big chain, a pretty good bunch of bike riding employees. And Performance is spending more $$ on sponsoring mt. bike/road bike races and bike fests. Good company in my opinion. Oh, and they are very comptative on bike prices.

BD? Well, they have a website and if you send an email, someone may even contact you.

Volfy

Hey buddy, lighten up. I've had some "spirited" discussions with Bikewise1 before and we don't exactly agree on everything, but I thought his response to you was very direct and to the point. He's in the biz and offered you some insights from a brick-n-mortar LBS perspective. You don't have to believe him, but at least recognize that he spent the time to type up his opinion for you. That is what you are looking for, no?

If you are really serious about getting into the bike biz, plan on a trip to next year's Taipei Bike Show. The price quotes you'll get there are gonna make you come home ready to take out a second mortgage on the house - and thinking to yourself why da heck doesn't everybody open up a bike import biz and start raking in the dole. Then when you actually do start planning for it and talking to the bank and the OEMs, the logistics of it all will begin to hit you.

You'll start thinking Lance Armstrong was talking to you when he titled his first book "It's not about the bike..." because it's 99.99% about running a business.

I've seen so many guys spend so much time and effort on their hobbies and have so much fun at it (and may be even made a little money) they begin to contemplate turning it into a serious business, only to discover that once that hobby becomes work, it is no longer any fun. And that running a successful business is very very hard work.

gcl8a

My point, admittedly not very well put was:

cheap bike + crappy customer service = Bikes Direct
cheap bike + good customer service = Performance

Seems like the OP wants to be the latter (though starting not as big, of course), and thus is going to compete with Performance, more so than Bikes Direct. That's a tough spot to get started.

gcl8a

No customer loyalty, I'm guessing. Seems they all went out and bought Pinarellos.

Or is that Pinarelli?

Volfy

No man! It's Pinarelloes.

ridethecliche

Drop the Pinarello, take the canoli!

indygreg

First off, Performance.com sells a few bikes in addition to parts. Parts, Accessories, Clothes, shoes, etc are their business, not bikes. They have some good priced bikes like BD (Taiwan alum frames, etc).

Secondly, read most posts by people that have actually bought a BD bike and you will see no issues with customer service. This hangup on no phone number is amazing . . . this is not 911, email is just fine. Amazon and many others have no phone service.

DrPete 

They were already out of business when I was shopping... I seriously contemplated the SRS-1 but didn't want to buy it from a defunct company.