I Rode With The Big Boys
09-26-18, 03:30 PM
#26
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I know the route and some of the riders you pointed out on the levee, as with all things you might consider this..... perhaps they are jerks? perhaps they are shy and not able to work conversations well with new comers? perhaps they are weird and just don't like you for no apparent reason? but cycling like all other sports and activities is very cliquish. I've ridden with at least one of the mentioned riders and for 40 miles and a rest stop I had no conversation with him. I just didn't take it personally. maybe over time people loosen up and socialize I don't know.
09-26-18, 04:46 PM
#27
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09-26-18, 06:28 PM
#29
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I know the route and some of the riders you pointed out on the levee, as with all things you might consider this..... perhaps they are jerks? perhaps they are shy and not able to work conversations well with new comers? perhaps they are weird and just don't like you for no apparent reason? but cycling like all other sports and activities is very cliquish. I've ridden with at least one of the mentioned riders and for 40 miles and a rest stop I had no conversation with him. I just didn't take it personally. maybe over time people loosen up and socialize I don't know.
09-27-18, 08:25 AM
#31
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Renovo Bikes was just one of the tangents of the story. What a spectacular piece of mechanical art they are. As much as I can appreciate it, I would never buy one. Unfortunately, I can't imagine there's enough of a market to sustain them. The bikes are of the charts cool. I'd love to ride one to see how they feel.
09-27-18, 08:27 AM
#32
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I didn't take it personally either. I tried to make my post as free from judgement as possible, saying only that we cyclists can be a socially awkward group as a whole, and we really can. The point of the post was just to tell a story about what to me was an interesting ride. I would say I'll see you on the path soon, but unless I bump into you in the next three weeks it's going to be a LONG time before I can get back out. I ride the Lynskey touring bike and I just got in a Litespeed T6 today. If we ever pass there's about a 99% chance I'll greet you and smile. Next spring if you are looking for someone to ride with, shoot me a PM. I go to the Trace on occasion. I also go ride to Laplace and ride 51 out to Middendorfs. Every now and then I go to MS and ride my old haunts over there.
Yeah, I didn't get a complaint out of your OP, just some social observation.
People aren't under any obligation to schmooze with strangers just because they have bicycles, but it is kind of fun to speculate why they don't want to.
Have a speedy recovery and recovery of your speed!
09-27-18, 08:29 AM
#33
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Could it be that they wee out to enjoy each others company and, while not wanting to appear overtly rude, did not want to engage a total stranger in their experience.
Why assume that one should just be welcomed into a group carte blanche without understanding the dynamic under which it was formed.
Why assume that one should just be welcomed into a group carte blanche without understanding the dynamic under which it was formed.
09-27-18, 08:32 AM
#34
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Could it be that they wee out to enjoy each others company and, while not wanting to appear overtly rude, did not want to engage a total stranger in their experience.
Why assume that one should just be welcomed into a group carte blanche without understanding the dynamic under which it was formed.
Why assume that one should just be welcomed into a group carte blanche without understanding the dynamic under which it was formed.
09-27-18, 08:48 AM
#35
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I'm really sorry to hear that. I asked the guy, when at Sea Otter, if I could come visit when next in Portland. Alas, the next time I was in Portland it was to drop off the kid at college and I was there from 9:00 - 10:00 pm and then drove out, thinking there would be a "next time."
I keep hoping maybe it is just the website.
BikeSnobNYC has been doing an extended review on one they sent him. I will check in and see if there is any news.
I'll stop hijacking now, except to say (paraphrasing BikeSnob) you shouldn't ride a wooden bike unless you are willing to have a conversation about it.
Last edited by Cyclist0108; 09-27-18 at 08:49 AM. Reason: added link
09-27-18, 08:54 AM
#36
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I'm really sorry to hear that. I asked the guy, when at Sea Otter, if I could come visit when next in Portland. Alas, the next time I was in Portland it was to drop off the kid at college and I was there from 9:00 - 10:00 pm and then drove out, thinking there would be a "next time."
I keep hoping maybe it is just the website.
BikeSnobNYC has been doing an extended review on one they sent him. I will check in and see if there is any news.
I'll stop hijacking now, except to say (paraphrasing BikeSnob) you shouldn't ride a wooden bike unless you are willing to have a conversation about it.
09-27-18, 09:07 AM
#37
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Well, in that case:
If I remember correctly, he told me he used to design and build aircraft parts from wood, so he had a lot of prior experience to draw upon.
If I remember correctly, he told me he used to design and build aircraft parts from wood, so he had a lot of prior experience to draw upon.
09-27-18, 09:56 AM
#38
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I'm not saying that as a criticism, just as an example of reactions not being so cut and dry. Yes we can speculate about their social skills all day but what about those of injecting oneself into an activity already in progress on the fly. It sort of forces someone to either be polite or appear overtly rude. Kinda like waving at every cyclist that passes (which I tend to do). Creates a forced obligation or perception of arrogance. Some people dont care and others resent the imposition.
We focus on them but why do we create the obligation? Why do I think every stranger cyclist should wave to each other and why did you think you should just attach to that passing group without knowing who they are.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 09-27-18 at 10:00 AM.
09-27-18, 10:13 AM
#39
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I am a bit of a boat nut too. Wooden boats make me drool. I'd never own one, but love looking at them and would love to take one for a spin. The bike in that photo is truly art.
09-27-18, 10:20 AM
#40
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True.. but the tone may have been set when you joined their group uninvited and while some may have been socially polite, others may have just been waiting for you to leave because you were never part of the group to start with.
I'm not saying that as a criticism, just as an example of reactions not being so cut and dry. Yes we can speculate about their social skills all day but what about those of injecting oneself into an activity already in progress on the fly. It sort of forces someone to either be polite or appear overtly rude. Kinda like waving at every cyclist that passes (which I tend to do). Creates a forced obligation or perception of arrogance. Some people dont care and others resent the imposition.
We focus on them but why do we create the obligation? Why do I think every stranger cyclist should wave to each other and why did you think you should just attach to that passing group without knowing who they are.
I'm not saying that as a criticism, just as an example of reactions not being so cut and dry. Yes we can speculate about their social skills all day but what about those of injecting oneself into an activity already in progress on the fly. It sort of forces someone to either be polite or appear overtly rude. Kinda like waving at every cyclist that passes (which I tend to do). Creates a forced obligation or perception of arrogance. Some people dont care and others resent the imposition.
We focus on them but why do we create the obligation? Why do I think every stranger cyclist should wave to each other and why did you think you should just attach to that passing group without knowing who they are.
The observation that us cyclists can be a socially awkward group wasn't borne of this single episode. Most of the miles I put on, I put on during solo rides, constantly processing the interpersonal dynamic that plays out among the various users and groups of users of the path.
09-27-18, 10:44 AM
#41
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A couple of things here. I asked if I could join their group and was told I could. Then when I did, I was far enough back that I could have easily been ignored. Where there group had an average gap between bikes of maybe a half bike length, I was about a bike and a half or two bike lengths behind the last rider.
The observation that us cyclists can be a socially awkward group wasn't borne of this single episode. Most of the miles I put on, I put on during solo rides, constantly processing the interpersonal dynamic that plays out among the various users and groups of users of the path.
The observation that us cyclists can be a socially awkward group wasn't borne of this single episode. Most of the miles I put on, I put on during solo rides, constantly processing the interpersonal dynamic that plays out among the various users and groups of users of the path.
There's no way of knowing what intragroup dynamics you may have stumbled into, and without knowing any more, I don't think anyone involved needs to have done anything "wrong" for it to turn into a slightly awkward situation.
What makes this fun to speculate about is the utter triviality of the issue--no great moral principle is at stake, there were no real consequences, and it's the kind of thing we've probably encountered before and will almost certainly do again. Questions like these are the premise of maybe 60% of all Seinfeld episodes--"is he snubbing me, my bike, my handlebars or the guy who let me join?" and "why would you have a wooden bike if you don't want to talk about it?"
Serenity Now!
09-27-18, 01:38 PM
#43
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Yes, I think socially awkward isnt too far out of line and probably accounts for a lot of odd interactions.
Recently I approached a couple of fully decked out bike packing cyclists at a coffee shop to have a chat but recieved a cool reception that made me feel awkward. Maybe they were being rude or standoffish but it could have been a lot of other things as well like fatigue, heat, thirst, being alone for a long time or just wanting to relax quietly.
after the initial feeling of being snubbed subsides I tend to give people the benefit of doubt.
Recently I approached a couple of fully decked out bike packing cyclists at a coffee shop to have a chat but recieved a cool reception that made me feel awkward. Maybe they were being rude or standoffish but it could have been a lot of other things as well like fatigue, heat, thirst, being alone for a long time or just wanting to relax quietly.
after the initial feeling of being snubbed subsides I tend to give people the benefit of doubt.
09-30-18, 08:56 AM
#44
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I did a 30 mile ride this morning on my new Litespeed T6. Since we touched on some sociological issues in this thread, I'll tell another little story. I was riding down a divided 4 lane that runs along the edge of a park. It's a very common road for bicyclists as early morning weekend traffic is almost non-existent. A roadie began overtaking me. We were the only ones in sight. No distractions or other traffic to process. He was not wearing buds. When he got beside me I said "Good Morning." He didn't acknowledge me or the greeting in any way. His BMW jersey and Moots bike were a lot nicer than he was. After a couple seconds of non-response I got curious and said "maybe not." That earned me a sideways glance.
09-30-18, 10:37 AM
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For such situations, the old-fashioned Silca frame pump is ideal. You can stick it in their spokes.
It would be payback.
It would be payback.
Last edited by Cyclist0108; 09-30-18 at 10:44 AM.
09-30-18, 11:11 AM
#46
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I did a 30 mile ride this morning on my new Litespeed T6. Since we touched on some sociological issues in this thread, I'll tell another little story. I was riding down a divided 4 lane that runs along the edge of a park. It's a very common road for bicyclists as early morning weekend traffic is almost non-existent. A roadie began overtaking me. We were the only ones in sight. No distractions or other traffic to process. He was not wearing buds. When he got beside me I said "Good Morning." He didn't acknowledge me or the greeting in any way. His BMW jersey and Moots bike were a lot nicer than he was. After a couple seconds of non-response I got curious and said "maybe not." That earned me a sideways glance.
People are often either funny ha ha or funny peculiar.
09-30-18, 11:19 AM
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So, you were on the wrong side. What he said was true.
09-30-18, 07:59 PM
#48
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Sunday morning I set out for a leisurely ride on the Lynskey Backroad flat bar touring bike. Not too long after I hopped up on the MUP atop the MS River Levee, a group of 10 or so riders came up behind me. I was spinning at about 17 MPH and they closed the gap quickly. As the last rider passed, we exchanged pleasantries. I asked if I could latch on. He made a comment something like this, "your engine may be up to it, but I am not sure your machine is, but go ahead."
It felt surprisingly good to ride a 21-22 MPH pace line for the first time in years. I laid off the back a little further than normal to try to give them a level of comfort since the didn't know me. About 6 miles after I joined them, the rider that made the comment and 3 others fell off the group. I stayed with the main group for another 3-4 miles before I decided that if I wanted to make it back home I better conserve some energy.
One of the guys was riding a sweet Renovo wooden bike. About 5 miles from where I fell off, the group stopped to take a break. I pulled up, stopped and thanked them for pulling me for a while. One rider smiled and said "no problem." The other riders paid me no attention. When I complemented the guy's wooden bike, he briefly glanced at me and didn't say a word. Us cyclists seem to be a socially awkward group as a whole.
My quads are feeling my effort today. I need to get back into more sporting rides. Maybe I will after my surgery. I like challenging my fitness.
It felt surprisingly good to ride a 21-22 MPH pace line for the first time in years. I laid off the back a little further than normal to try to give them a level of comfort since the didn't know me. About 6 miles after I joined them, the rider that made the comment and 3 others fell off the group. I stayed with the main group for another 3-4 miles before I decided that if I wanted to make it back home I better conserve some energy.
One of the guys was riding a sweet Renovo wooden bike. About 5 miles from where I fell off, the group stopped to take a break. I pulled up, stopped and thanked them for pulling me for a while. One rider smiled and said "no problem." The other riders paid me no attention. When I complemented the guy's wooden bike, he briefly glanced at me and didn't say a word. Us cyclists seem to be a socially awkward group as a whole.
My quads are feeling my effort today. I need to get back into more sporting rides. Maybe I will after my surgery. I like challenging my fitness.
09-30-18, 08:25 PM
#49
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I did a 30 mile ride this morning on my new Litespeed T6. Since we touched on some sociological issues in this thread, I'll tell another little story. I was riding down a divided 4 lane that runs along the edge of a park. It's a very common road for bicyclists as early morning weekend traffic is almost non-existent. A roadie began overtaking me. We were the only ones in sight. No distractions or other traffic to process. He was not wearing buds. When he got beside me I said "Good Morning." He didn't acknowledge me or the greeting in any way. His BMW jersey and Moots bike were a lot nicer than he was. After a couple seconds of non-response I got curious and said "maybe not." That earned me a sideways glance.
09-30-18, 09:28 PM
#50
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Thank you captain obvious...
Was I on the wrong side - of course. Did my actions indicate I knew that and was making sure I did not impede the cyclist traveling towards me - equally so.
My thoughts are that if one is compelled to make smart alec sarcastic comments when others go out of their way to show consideration then one is really telling the universe one doesn't appreciate consideration and it (the universe) simply replies by showing less of it (or maybe ones mind becomes jaded in a way that can no longer see it). In the end, as Somerset Maugham concluded in The Razors Edge: We all get exactly what we want in life.
Was I on the wrong side - of course. Did my actions indicate I knew that and was making sure I did not impede the cyclist traveling towards me - equally so.
My thoughts are that if one is compelled to make smart alec sarcastic comments when others go out of their way to show consideration then one is really telling the universe one doesn't appreciate consideration and it (the universe) simply replies by showing less of it (or maybe ones mind becomes jaded in a way that can no longer see it). In the end, as Somerset Maugham concluded in The Razors Edge: We all get exactly what we want in life.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 09-30-18 at 09:48 PM.