seaden

I went ahead and posted up a paypal claim. NOt sure what will happen.

DrPete 

Did you return the bike already??

DrPete

Biggziff

[QUOTE=dekalbSTEEL]2 things:

1. $125 flat rate shipping??? WOW! that's high!!!!(twice as high as his actual cost, I bet.)
[QUOTE=dekalbSTEEL]

Don't be so sure. I recently shipped an EMPTY Trek box to a friend in VA from NY. UPS wanted $114 and FedEx charged me $84. The dimensional weight was 90 pounds due to the size of the box.

Biggziff

Ebay doesn't like personal slams in feedback. His feedback response was very personal. I'd definately take that up with ebay Safe Harbor.

DrPete 

+1. That really won't go over well. In fact, if the feedback was anything like his e-mail, you might be able to have it removed.

DrPete

Socalcycling

What does "imidatly" mean?

cooker

Not necessarily. It can be expensive to ship a bike because it's oversized.

sunofsand

"ebay hell"

HAHA lol

seaden

Here is more response since I did the paypal dispute:

i didn't see the bike. go **** yourself denise. and do it hard while your at it. i took pictures of the bike. i touched the bike. i carried it out to take the pictures. you are the ****ing 100% liar here, you scumbag *****. did you miss your eveing dose??

you may try to get me on PayPal denise. you will not win. trust me. Next I will file a civil lawsuit against you in your home state. The fun is just beginning sweetie. Wait and see.

Can he really file a cicil lawsuit against me?

socalrider

to get a true picture of the interaction between you and the seller, it would be fair to post your emails as well, not just the responses.. Pictures of the problem areas would also be helpful to see your side of the story.

Yes he can sue you, depending on your state it would most likely fall under small claims court.. California has a max of 7500.00.. I would recommend not emailing him anymore, let the paypal process decide..

H1449-6

Anyone CAN sue anyone else, whether they have a case or not. The real question is WILL this person do so.

This guy is a clown. Don't worry about it. Just don't expect to win your dispute based on a few blemishes.

In future, think twice about buying on ebay.

fairbid

It's 2006 and now I know we live in a high tech world....

I am a computer consultant and an eBay seller. I am not a an avid bike rider like most members on this forum are.

I recently completed a transaction on eBay with the original poster of this thread "seaden". She has disputed the transaction with me. And I have responded.

I think it is crazy that this woman has gone to great lenghths to discredit me on the internet, especially creating a thread to slam me on the MySpace of cycling websites. I make that comparison in a positive gesture not a negative one.

This is a private transaction between a buyer and a seller. I know there are good people in the bike community, because I just checked my email and a very fair eBay member just sent me an email to let me know that "Denise is slamming you on bikeforums.net." This kind soul was nice enough to email me the link to this thread. That is why I am here. I think it is bizzare that I have to be defending myself on a bike forum in the first place.

I find the buyer's logic and actions -- symptomatic of people with severe mental/emotional distress. She cries foul by saying , "name calling." Are people on the West Coast so politically correct , that they cannot be HONEST??? I know lots of people on the West Coast and this individual is not representative of them at all. Being liberal doesn't have to mean being anal. This transaction has really been a nightmare for me and her, I know.

I have been selling on eBay since 1999. Until this buyer slammed me with a neg. feeback I had completed 86 positive transactions. 100% positive before 7/10/06.

I have been very offended and digusted by what has taken place. This is not some high school transaction selling pixie sticks in the locker room -- this was a business transaction. The customer's willingness to take this on the Internet, off ebay reflects poorly on her and the whole eBay community.

As I said before, I am not an avid biker. I am a computer consultant and professional eBay seller. I recently sold 4 bikes on eBay for a customer of mine. That is what i do in these transactions; i resell goods for my customers. I inspect all goods and I am very involved with the sale. I see the goods, write descriptions of those goods, and take pictures of the goods being sold. The buyer's claim that I am an absent minded seller is so far from the truth. My other customers are a joy to deal with. I have never experienced a customer like this. A mentor of mine taught me many years ago "Watch out, the public is a bit*h." Well I think that statement from a wise man says it all in this situation.

I must retain the right to pursue all legal remedies to protect myself, my business, and my good name. I am putting the buyer on notice that I may take all legal and necessary actions to resolve this. I want to make the buyer aware that part of my consulting business entails doing private investigations. To this date I have not found any skeletons, needles, or empty pill bottles in her closet -- BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN I WON'T. I am a good person, family man, and an honest businessman. I pray to God that this woman can find happiness in her life and find a reasonable solution with me. I can't negotiate with insanity.

DrPete 

Well, as a third party observer who doesn't get to see all the facts, it's a little tough for me to see where you're coming from when you say "I'm not name calling, she's just crazy." The response you sent her about mental instability and ebay hell was absolutely insulting, and to call it anything else would be just plain wrong.

That being said, none of us are seeing the entire e-mail string between the two of you, so there's really no great way to tell what happened. I will tell you that it sounds like the bike WAS in pretty bad shape in terms of the finish when it arrived to the buyer. As a self-proclaimed layman, you may not have appreciated that, but there's no reason that a bike's finish should look like that, even if it's 14 years old, without it having been altered significantly at some point. So it sounds to me like the buyer had a legitimate gripe. How that led to the "go to ebay hell" message I'm not sure, but it sure sounds like you didn't think the buyer was making a legitimate complaint and you snowballed from there, even questioning her sanity.

Please don't sell yourself as a completely innocent, aboveboard person who's as pure as fresh snow. You can't call yourself a legitimate, reasonable person and go on to talk about how your buyer is insane, even if she is. It really doesn't do much for your credibility. I don't know what you have against the west coast or if you just can't get how a cyclist would worry about the finish on a bike, but you need to get over it and just give this buyer her refund. Under ebay's rules, the only thing she needs to do is pay YOU for the bike in a timely manner, and inspect it on arrival to ensure the auction was accurate. It sounds like it was not, and all of this finding another buyer business, etc., is not something that she is required to do. She paid for an item and received it in a condition that was not specified in the auction, therefore she has a recourse through you and paypal to get her money back and return the item to you.

In the future, I would try to know a little more about what you're selling, especially when it comes to big ticket items. A quick trip to a local bike shop to inspect the bike would've gone a long way in preventing this.

DrPete

fairbid

I did not come on here to defend myself. I don't need to.

When my fellow New Englander's say, "it's a different country out on the Left Coast," I guess it really is.

I am an expert on mental health, from a lay person's perspective. I think the ways in which I've categorized Seaden are enitrely accurate.

I am not speaking with an intention to insult. I am speaking from a position of experience in dealing with people who suffer from the afflictions that the buyer suffers from.

That is why I've turned this matter over to a third party for settlement. It's beyond me. It really is.

I will let the powers that be decide who is right and who is wrong. Until then...

badkarma

I heard on PTI yesterday that some guy who claims to look like Michael Jordan is suing MJ and Phil Knight (CEO of Nike) for $832 Million b/c he gets mistaken for MJ quite a lot. Tis true, you can sue for anything these days and some court will listen to it. The guy doesn't even look that much like MJ, and when the TV crew came to interview him, he was wearing Air Jordans.

DrPete 

Last time I checked, "Insane" is not a term used by mental health experts.

Second, it's not your job to be a mental health professional on ebay. Yours is that of seller. If they need a mental health professional I'm sure they'll open a category for that.

Finally, I live on the east coast and STILL think you were being unreasonable and insulting.

DrPete

badkarma

+1

I never saw Denise's emails, but your responses were extremely crude and immature - certainly not representative of the moral businessman you claim you are. I grew up just 45 minutes NE of W. Hartford, and I too think you're "unreasonable and insulting."

jbrians

I'm Canadian...we don't insult others much at all.

Still haven't!

Biggziff

You're an expert all right... You obviously don't know the law in the US:

"In British and American law, as well as other legislative systems based thereon, libel and slander are two forms of defamation (of character). Defamation is defined to be the tort or delict of "...publication of a false statement of fact, made with the requisite state of mind, that causes injury"[1]."


The responses that I've seen from you are slanderous at best. They meet the criteria to be considered libelous in a court of law. To be fair, I have not seen any of the emails sent to you, but even if they were equally defamatory, a better man would have taken the high road and kept personal insults out of this. Denise didn't post personal attacks on your character on a public forum (ebay feedback)...you did. To my thinking and experience, you're standing in the wrong side of the room on this one.

This little nugget is laughable:

"I must retain the right to pursue all legal remedies to protect myself, my business, and my good name. I am putting the buyer on notice that I may take all legal and necessary actions to resolve this. I want to make the buyer aware that part of my consulting business entails doing private investigations. To this date I have not found any skeletons, needles, or empty pill bottles in her closet -- BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN I WON'T. I am a good person, family man, and an honest businessman. I pray to God that this woman can find happiness in her life and find a reasonable solution with me. I can't negotiate with insanity"

You obviously think you can throw a few legal sounding words around and try to bully and intimidate this person. You have no recourse here. Ebay and PayPal will decide and by selling on ebay you agreed to abide by their rules, including how they see fit to resolve this and every other problem. Suck it up and live with decision without trying to slam some other person. It's embarassing to even read your posts.

I wish you each the best and hope you can come to a mutually agreeable solution without resorting to 3 year old name calling.

I'm on the same coast as you and consider your statements to be insulting, condescending and rude.

gfrance

Listen. All that matters here is whether or not the seller misrepresented the item on eBay. If the buyer can get PapPal and eBay to agree that the seller misrepresented the item, a refund will be in order. Bottom line, get eBay and PayPal involved immediately. The rest is just a shouting match.

Biggziff

Eh?

take off you hoser!!

Sorry...I have good friends in Kingston and love to poke them a little!!

catatonic

Perfectly said.

And I have no idea why fairbid is posting here if he is not interested in defending himself...this just sounds like "dramaqueening: the next generation". Seriously...that's like me giong to a gaming board and trying to make myself look good....I know I'm one of the most hated players in the online game I play (and I admit, it's due to me being a jackhole in game)....I just accept that and move on.

slide

Since nobody has posted close up pix of the parts of the bike under dispute, here we probably have a difference in opinion about what 'excellent' in an old steel bike which was stored for 5 years in a FL basement means.

This is a constant problem with these soft descriptions. Buyers always think the object of their desire is better than it really is setting themselves up for the inevitable letdown. This is almost 100% the case with boats and cars - just ask any broker, so it's probably as true with bicycles. To add to this, sellers tend to overlook certain things such as a patina which they consider normal condition for such an old object, but the buyer sees as 'covered with rust' or some such.

This is the simple fact of buying / selling remotely. Both buyer and seller need to realize this or such blowups will occur and even get worse.

What is missing here, besides close ups of what is in dispute so we third parties can form an opinion, is what the buyer thinks her damages are. What would you feel is a fair price for the bike as you got it? It seems to me that the bike, even if you need to do some rubbing of the chrome and repaint the frame is still a fair deal. Do you disagree?

Just arguing with one saying "This bike is excellent" while the other says, "This bike isn't excellent" isn't progress or productive. What remedy does the buyer think she's due?

cooker

I don't know anything about "Denise". However, if she accurately quoted your emails you are one incredibly rude boor. And if you're not an expert in bikes, as you acknowledge, then perhaps in your ignorance you inadvertently misrepresented the bike and should take it back at your expense.

EDIT: of course, you may be a troll who is not the seller at all but just a nasty BF prankster.

Biggziff

ACK!!!

not on BF!!!