Intermittant Fasting 🍴
06-02-18, 09:55 PM
#151
The Left Coast, USA
Yeah but, most of the uber-cyclist guys I've seen,... Amgen comes to mind..., look like pow survivors. If that's fitness, no thanks. Show me functional fitness in a variety of sports, that's impressive.
06-04-18, 07:39 AM
#152
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Like him or not, agree with him or not (I don't agree with everything he says), you can't ignore his results or dismiss the science. Which is at this moment, as reliable as it gets. Here's he is on Joe Rogan's podcast with 7 minutes on the uptake of nutrients and the role of insulin (and other hormones) manipulated through fasting.
Joe Rogan - Why Obese People Can't Lose Weight
Joe Rogan - Why Obese People Can't Lose Weight
06-04-18, 08:20 PM
#153
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This thread is not intended for world-class athletes.
"I just like to eat too much." What my former roommate told me when I asked if he was interested in joining me in the protocol. I suspect that is the real reason for the disparages.
"I just like to eat too much." What my former roommate told me when I asked if he was interested in joining me in the protocol. I suspect that is the real reason for the disparages.
06-05-18, 08:10 AM
#154
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I can't speak for the others, but this certainly isn't my reason. It's a way to control calories, nothing more. If it works for you, great! But there's nothing special or magical about it and trying to pretend otherwise given the absence of supporting evidence is borderline dishonest.
06-05-18, 09:34 AM
#155
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That's the thing about people, they can deny that anything exists or is possible when its something they don't won't to hear or experience. This is as old as mankind himself. When it comes from a professional individual's experience the claim its anecdotal. When its from a doctor, he's said to be unreputable.
Thing is, unlike the pharmaceutical companies that makes billions on their pills and potions, none of these are trying to sell you anything, nor do they have anything to gain. I certainly don't.
In fact, this thread is presented solely to educate and to provide scientific evidence and real-world personal experience as support. Even so, no system should be restricted from criticism. But so far, none of the naysayer have provided any counterpoint or science to the contrary. If I'm missing something, I'd certainly like to know it.
Simply poking fun at something you've never even tried it just infantile. I've tried the protocol and I know it works. But if that's not enough, the history of the development of mankind should prove some measure of support -- even the closed-minded can't deny.
For those are wiling to expand their knowledge, and have time for a more detailed analysis, here's more:
Some fun begins @ 13:05
Eat, Fast and Live Longer
Thing is, unlike the pharmaceutical companies that makes billions on their pills and potions, none of these are trying to sell you anything, nor do they have anything to gain. I certainly don't.
In fact, this thread is presented solely to educate and to provide scientific evidence and real-world personal experience as support. Even so, no system should be restricted from criticism. But so far, none of the naysayer have provided any counterpoint or science to the contrary. If I'm missing something, I'd certainly like to know it.
Simply poking fun at something you've never even tried it just infantile. I've tried the protocol and I know it works. But if that's not enough, the history of the development of mankind should prove some measure of support -- even the closed-minded can't deny.
For those are wiling to expand their knowledge, and have time for a more detailed analysis, here's more:
Some fun begins @ 13:05
Eat, Fast and Live Longer
Last edited by KraneXL; 06-05-18 at 09:39 AM.
06-05-18, 10:43 AM
#156
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4W/kg is world class? Sign me up for a pro team now!
Exactly. No magic, just one way to control calories that happens to work for me. I know plenty of guys faster and slower than me on various diets etc. I have yet to see any specific one that seperates the wheat from the chaff. I have seen ones that seem to restrict performance however such as the ketogenic (<25g) diet for actual racing.
You keep using scientific interchangeably with anecdotal evidence. Just because a video throws a bunch of big words you don't understand in it doesn't make it magic or scientific. Plenty if us provided real scientific evidence provided by peer reviewed researchers and real doctors. Attia being a hack and IF being a legitimate diet for cycling aren't mutually exclusive.
For a bit of personal anecdote. I did an FTP test yesterday. I'm up 21w from the beginning of April while being down 5 lbs using a 14-16h IF 5-6 days a week combined fasted a fasted 1H hilly commute at sweet spot power most days. Most of the gain in fitness was likely recovery of FTP from the previous season after being off the bike for almost the entire winter rather than a gain from a previous peak. Hoping to add another 10-15 watts through a build phase in time for late summer gravel races and cyclocross season.
I can't speak for the others, but this certainly isn't my reason. It's a way to control calories, nothing more. If it works for you, great! But there's nothing special or magical about it and trying to pretend otherwise given the absence of supporting evidence is borderline dishonest.
That's the thing about people, they can deny that anything exists or is possible when its something they don't won't to hear or experience. This is as old as mankind himself. When it comes from a professional individual's experience the claim its anecdotal. When its from a doctor, he's said to be unreputable.
Thing is, unlike the pharmaceutical companies that makes billions on their pills and potions, none of these are trying to sell you anything, nor do they have anything to gain. I certainly don't.
In fact, this thread is presented solely to educate and to provide scientific evidence and real-world personal experience as support. Even so, no system should be restricted from criticism. But so far, none of the naysayer have provided any counterpoint or science to the contrary. If I'm missing something, I'd certainly like to know it.
Simply poking fun at something you've never even tried it just infantile. I've tried the protocol and I know it works. But if that's not enough, the history of the development of mankind should prove some measure of support -- even the closed-minded can't deny.
For those are wiling to expand their knowledge, and have time for a more detailed analysis, here's more:
Some fun begins @ 13:05
Eat, Fast and Live Longer
Thing is, unlike the pharmaceutical companies that makes billions on their pills and potions, none of these are trying to sell you anything, nor do they have anything to gain. I certainly don't.
In fact, this thread is presented solely to educate and to provide scientific evidence and real-world personal experience as support. Even so, no system should be restricted from criticism. But so far, none of the naysayer have provided any counterpoint or science to the contrary. If I'm missing something, I'd certainly like to know it.
Simply poking fun at something you've never even tried it just infantile. I've tried the protocol and I know it works. But if that's not enough, the history of the development of mankind should prove some measure of support -- even the closed-minded can't deny.
For those are wiling to expand their knowledge, and have time for a more detailed analysis, here's more:
Some fun begins @ 13:05
Eat, Fast and Live Longer
For a bit of personal anecdote. I did an FTP test yesterday. I'm up 21w from the beginning of April while being down 5 lbs using a 14-16h IF 5-6 days a week combined fasted a fasted 1H hilly commute at sweet spot power most days. Most of the gain in fitness was likely recovery of FTP from the previous season after being off the bike for almost the entire winter rather than a gain from a previous peak. Hoping to add another 10-15 watts through a build phase in time for late summer gravel races and cyclocross season.
06-09-18, 08:15 PM
#157
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I've been doing the intermittent time fasting where I fast for 16 hours and eat for 8 hours. Since I started, I can definitely say I have more energy even without food and I don't get as hungry as before.
06-10-18, 01:46 AM
#158
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Thread Starter
IF is a good way to maintain a more natural and healthy lifestyle as well as improving your chances of maintaining a successful diet. It is certainly a lot closer to the way our ancestors developed before we started eating (and gaining weight) constantly throughout the day.
06-10-18, 01:54 AM
#159
Senior Member
IF is a good way to maintain a more natural and healthy lifestyle as well as improving your chances of maintaining a successful diet. It is certainly a lot closer to the way our ancestors developed before we started eating (and gaining weight) constantly throughout the day.
Also I don't really see how the whole ancestry thing ties into this. Yes, they ate intermittently and lived to the ripe old age of "died at childbirth". Just because something used to be some way doesn't mean that's the optimal way of doing things.
06-10-18, 02:53 PM
#160
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Man didn't develop with a restaurant on ever corner, that's a product of the last 100 years. The millennia before that, he didn't live in these man-made environments that allows him to eat 24/7.
This is a discussion on a healthy lifestyles.
Also I don't really see how the whole ancestry thing ties into this. Yes, they ate intermittently and lived to the ripe old age of "died at childbirth". Just because something used to be some way doesn't mean that's the optimal way of doing things.
Do you have a question on IF?
I'd hate to be that guy, but both arsenic and cyanide are 100% natural and they are generally not though to be good for you.
Also I don't really see how the whole ancestry thing ties into this. Yes, they ate intermittently and lived to the ripe old age of "died at childbirth". Just because something used to be some way doesn't mean that's the optimal way of doing things.
06-10-18, 05:08 PM
#161
The Left Coast, USA
You know, I think it is somewhat remarkable that people don't often speak from personal experiment & experience; the argumentative references are to scientific study, anecdotes, urban myth and logical rhetoric. "I know best because...[enter 3rd person credibility]". This is not a slam about the BF, this seems to be the modern condition -- everyone has an opinion, an argument, but few have given these opinions the real world test. Our culture uniformly discounts experience as so subjective and unscientific and capable of falsehoods they are not worth anyone's serious consideration. But, some fringe study feeding rats a ridiculous amount of sugar, or carbs, or fat, or protein...now that's meaningful! 
This is probably why podcasts have gotten so relevant for many people,(first person direct experience); I thoroughly enjoyed listen to Z. Bitter talk about how he prepared to run a 100 miles at a 7 mile an hour pace. Super-human accomplishment in my book, ( a low-carb, high fat guy...and IFer btw https://zachbitter.com/blog/2014/04/...rance_athletes ).. Hack?
This is probably why podcasts have gotten so relevant for many people,(first person direct experience); I thoroughly enjoyed listen to Z. Bitter talk about how he prepared to run a 100 miles at a 7 mile an hour pace. Super-human accomplishment in my book, ( a low-carb, high fat guy...and IFer btw https://zachbitter.com/blog/2014/04/...rance_athletes ).. Hack?
Last edited by FrenchFit; 06-10-18 at 05:15 PM.
06-10-18, 05:58 PM
#162
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I personally have no issues with personal experience (in fact I was looking forward to hearing more of it), however, it all depends on the credibility of the source. The claims have to be objective and most of us have natural tendency to exaggerate. These are the time when you get to challenge that individual's veracity.
I typically will not speak vehemently on a subject unless I've tried it and put it to the test myself. It may not follow the complete scientific model, but it is good enough to offer input and advice.
I typically will not speak vehemently on a subject unless I've tried it and put it to the test myself. It may not follow the complete scientific model, but it is good enough to offer input and advice.
06-11-18, 03:19 PM
#163
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You know, I think it is somewhat remarkable that people don't often speak from personal experiment & experience; the argumentative references are to scientific study, anecdotes, urban myth and logical rhetoric. "I know best because...[enter 3rd person credibility]". This is not a slam about the BF, this seems to be the modern condition -- everyone has an opinion, an argument, but few have given these opinions the real world test. Our culture uniformly discounts experience as so subjective and unscientific and capable of falsehoods they are not worth anyone's serious consideration. But, some fringe study feeding rats a ridiculous amount of sugar, or carbs, or fat, or protein...now that's meaningful!
This is probably why podcasts have gotten so relevant for many people,(first person direct experience); I thoroughly enjoyed listen to Z. Bitter talk about how he prepared to run a 100 miles at a 7 mile an hour pace. Super-human accomplishment in my book, ( a low-carb, high fat guy...and IFer btw https://zachbitter.com/blog/2014/04/...rance_athletes ).. Hack?
This is probably why podcasts have gotten so relevant for many people,(first person direct experience); I thoroughly enjoyed listen to Z. Bitter talk about how he prepared to run a 100 miles at a 7 mile an hour pace. Super-human accomplishment in my book, ( a low-carb, high fat guy...and IFer btw https://zachbitter.com/blog/2014/04/...rance_athletes ).. Hack?
06-13-18, 11:38 AM
#164
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You know, I think it is somewhat remarkable that people don't often speak from personal experiment & experience; the argumentative references are to scientific study, anecdotes, urban myth and logical rhetoric. "I know best because...[enter 3rd person credibility]". This is not a slam about the BF, this seems to be the modern condition -- everyone has an opinion, an argument, but few have given these opinions the real world test. Our culture uniformly discounts experience as so subjective and unscientific and capable of falsehoods they are not worth anyone's serious consideration. But, some fringe study feeding rats a ridiculous amount of sugar, or carbs, or fat, or protein...now that's meaningful!
This is probably why podcasts have gotten so relevant for many people,(first person direct experience); I thoroughly enjoyed listen to Z. Bitter talk about how he prepared to run a 100 miles at a 7 mile an hour pace. Super-human accomplishment in my book, ( a low-carb, high fat guy...and IFer btw https://zachbitter.com/blog/2014/04/...rance_athletes ).. Hack?
This is probably why podcasts have gotten so relevant for many people,(first person direct experience); I thoroughly enjoyed listen to Z. Bitter talk about how he prepared to run a 100 miles at a 7 mile an hour pace. Super-human accomplishment in my book, ( a low-carb, high fat guy...and IFer btw https://zachbitter.com/blog/2014/04/...rance_athletes ).. Hack?
A good practice, and what I do, is to read scientific studies of training or diet methods which produced the sorts of results in which I'm interested. Then I try those methods on myself and see if they work for me. Usually I report my results. I don't randomly experiment on myself with dietary or training programs which have no support in science. Why would I do that, when almost any result one could wish to attain has scientific methods for its attainment already established? Want to increase your FTP? We know how to do that. Want to lose weight? We know how to do that. Usually there are several approaches, all supported by scientific studies. Pick an appealing one and go at it.
I would also like to offer another method for getting ideas which might work for training and diet: see what the largest number of top practitioners of your sport are doing. What do TdF riders eat? How do they train? What do most ultrarunners eat? How do they train? We may not be able to do what they do in terms of volume, but our dietary and training distribution can be similar. You know, there's always one runner who eats bacon, but what's at the aid stations? Piles of bacon or carbs? Did the bacon eater podium in Western States? IOW what's most likely to work for one individual is what has worked best for most folks. See my motto: "Most folks aren't idiots."
So if there's a person out there who says they get great results from some method which has been found by studies not to produce said results, I figure that the person reporting the unusual results is probably unusual or is not actually doing what they say they are doing.
People would rather listen to podcasts or watch videos rather than read scientific studies because it's easy, brainless, and everyone loves them some hero worship. One picture is more powerful for many than a thousand words, see stills of UFOs, etc. And note your data-free photo of a runner. What's that about? I must say, his form is excellent, but you didn't mention that, just stuff about his diet. The diets of ultrarunners may be varied, perhaps their form not so much? See:
https://www.americansportandfitness....-ultra-runners
Or maybe not so much variation, eh? Piles of bacon or carbs?
I suppose I should mention that one of the greatest ultrarunners of all time, Scott Jurek, is a vegan and therefore a high-carb athlete, like most ultrarunners, ultracyclists, TdF riders, etc., etc. Might be something to consider when talking about experience.
And then see form:
https://ultrarunning.com/features/tr...cs-and-drills/
Not much variation in what works best, eh?
__________________
Results matter
Results matter
06-13-18, 12:24 PM
#165
The Left Coast, USA
I think you're looking at it backwards. If one only speaks from personal experience, that's really easy to discount. It's just one data point, no controls, and a great possibility that uncontrolled factors could have confounded the result. Plus everyone is different. There are no scientific studies of anything using one one person, or even one trial person and one control person. Makes no sense. You're missing the whole power of the scientific method.
A good practice, and what I do, is to read scientific studies of training or diet methods which produced the sorts of results in which I'm interested. Then I try those methods on myself and see if they work for me. Usually I report my results. I don't randomly experiment on myself with dietary or training programs which have no support in science. Why would I do that, when almost any result one could wish to attain has scientific methods for its attainment already established? Want to increase your FTP? We know how to do that. Want to lose weight? We know how to do that. Usually there are several approaches, all supported by scientific studies. Pick an appealing one and go at it.
I would also like to offer another method for getting ideas which might work for training and diet: see what the largest number of top practitioners of your sport are doing. What do TdF riders eat? How do they train? What do most ultrarunners eat? How do they train? We may not be able to do what they do in terms of volume, but our dietary and training distribution can be similar. You know, there's always one runner who eats bacon, but what's at the aid stations? Piles of bacon or carbs? Did the bacon eater podium in Western States? IOW what's most likely to work for one individual is what has worked best for most folks. See my motto: "Most folks aren't idiots."
So if there's a person out there who says they get great results from some method which has been found by studies not to produce said results, I figure that the person reporting the unusual results is probably unusual or is not actually doing what they say they are doing.
People would rather listen to podcasts or watch videos rather than read scientific studies because it's easy, brainless, and everyone loves them some hero worship. One picture is more powerful for many than a thousand words, see stills of UFOs, etc. And note your data-free photo of a runner. What's that about? I must say, his form is excellent, but you didn't mention that, just stuff about his diet. The diets of ultrarunners may be varied, perhaps their form not so much? See:
https://www.americansportandfitness....-ultra-runners
Or maybe not so much variation, eh? Piles of bacon or carbs?
I suppose I should mention that one of the greatest ultrarunners of all time, Scott Jurek, is a vegan and therefore a high-carb athlete, like most ultrarunners, ultracyclists, TdF riders, etc., etc. Might be something to consider when talking about experience.
And then see form:
https://ultrarunning.com/features/tr...cs-and-drills/
Not much variation in what works best, eh?
A good practice, and what I do, is to read scientific studies of training or diet methods which produced the sorts of results in which I'm interested. Then I try those methods on myself and see if they work for me. Usually I report my results. I don't randomly experiment on myself with dietary or training programs which have no support in science. Why would I do that, when almost any result one could wish to attain has scientific methods for its attainment already established? Want to increase your FTP? We know how to do that. Want to lose weight? We know how to do that. Usually there are several approaches, all supported by scientific studies. Pick an appealing one and go at it.
I would also like to offer another method for getting ideas which might work for training and diet: see what the largest number of top practitioners of your sport are doing. What do TdF riders eat? How do they train? What do most ultrarunners eat? How do they train? We may not be able to do what they do in terms of volume, but our dietary and training distribution can be similar. You know, there's always one runner who eats bacon, but what's at the aid stations? Piles of bacon or carbs? Did the bacon eater podium in Western States? IOW what's most likely to work for one individual is what has worked best for most folks. See my motto: "Most folks aren't idiots."
So if there's a person out there who says they get great results from some method which has been found by studies not to produce said results, I figure that the person reporting the unusual results is probably unusual or is not actually doing what they say they are doing.
People would rather listen to podcasts or watch videos rather than read scientific studies because it's easy, brainless, and everyone loves them some hero worship. One picture is more powerful for many than a thousand words, see stills of UFOs, etc. And note your data-free photo of a runner. What's that about? I must say, his form is excellent, but you didn't mention that, just stuff about his diet. The diets of ultrarunners may be varied, perhaps their form not so much? See:
https://www.americansportandfitness....-ultra-runners
Or maybe not so much variation, eh? Piles of bacon or carbs?
I suppose I should mention that one of the greatest ultrarunners of all time, Scott Jurek, is a vegan and therefore a high-carb athlete, like most ultrarunners, ultracyclists, TdF riders, etc., etc. Might be something to consider when talking about experience.
And then see form:
https://ultrarunning.com/features/tr...cs-and-drills/
Not much variation in what works best, eh?
My reference to Jurek: a) He reportedly runs fasted in the morning, multiple hour runs and b) [i]"Contrary to what most people think about veganism, according to Jurek, the real challenge isn’t making sure you’ve got enough protein in your diet. It’s making sure you’ve got enough fat." So, he's a vegan who relies on fat & IF'ing regime. Not your average vegan.
My thought about what "most folks do", is that most folks are often wrong. Immediate example that comes to mind the running world is running shoes with high offset heels, made so popular by Nike. For years, runners were told to run heel drop first, including lots of very experienced runners. The result was untold number of injures, and a good deal of doctors and PT bills. The idea that runners are always going to have knee, ankle and foot injuries is directly linked (in my opinion) to what "most folks" thought was the right and necessary running gear. Whoops !
I do think direct, real world experience matters a lot...and it is often what acts as the correcting mechanism to bad science and "what most folks" think.
06-13-18, 12:47 PM
#166
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You might be surprised to read I agree with much of what you've said, I am not advocating throwing scientific study out of the discussion. However, those "scientific conclusions" are often misleading, or co-opted to arrive at a false conclusion sup[porting an agenda. In our generation, there is probably no better example than the mania over going "low-fat" to prevent heat disease et al. I strongly suspect it is the number one reason for the increase in obesity and diabetics.
My reference to Jurek: a) He reportedly runs fasted in the morning, multiple hour runs and b) [i]"Contrary to what most people think about veganism, according to Jurek, the real challenge isn’t making sure you’ve got enough protein in your diet. It’s making sure you’ve got enough fat." So, he's a vegan who relies on fat & IF'ing regime.Not your average vegan.
My thought about what "most folks do", is that most folks are often wrong. Immediate example that comes to mind the running world is running shoes with high offset heels, made so popular by Nike. For years, runners were told to run heel drop first, including lots of very experienced runners. The result was untold number of injures, and a good deal of doctors and PT bills. The idea that runners are always going to have knee, ankle and foot injuries is directly linked (in my opinion) to what "most folks" thought was the right and necessary running gear. Whoops !
I do think direct, real world experience matters a lot...and it is often what acts as the correcting mechanism to bad science and "what most folks" think.
My reference to Jurek: a) He reportedly runs fasted in the morning, multiple hour runs and b) [i]"Contrary to what most people think about veganism, according to Jurek, the real challenge isn’t making sure you’ve got enough protein in your diet. It’s making sure you’ve got enough fat." So, he's a vegan who relies on fat & IF'ing regime.Not your average vegan.
My thought about what "most folks do", is that most folks are often wrong. Immediate example that comes to mind the running world is running shoes with high offset heels, made so popular by Nike. For years, runners were told to run heel drop first, including lots of very experienced runners. The result was untold number of injures, and a good deal of doctors and PT bills. The idea that runners are always going to have knee, ankle and foot injuries is directly linked (in my opinion) to what "most folks" thought was the right and necessary running gear. Whoops !
I do think direct, real world experience matters a lot...and it is often what acts as the correcting mechanism to bad science and "what most folks" think.
When I'm training to come out on top and win races, I’ll need 5,000 to 6,000 calories a day. But someone who’s newer to running—say, training for a marathon or triathlon—might not need that many. The key thing is you have to eat while you’re running; you burn through the glycogen [a form of glucose that is easily processed] as you exercise.
When I race, I'm eating a lot of "sports food" that's carbohydrate-dense, like gels and energy chews. One of the cool things I worked on with Clif during the last year was something called Organic Energy Food. It’s basically food in a pouch that’s blended to a consistency that’s easy to get down. There are even savory flavors like pizza and sweet potato.
In Eat and Run, I wrote about how I tried to drink straight olive oil during a training run before my first 100-miler. I hardly knew what I was doing, and I was like, “Well, olive oil’s this amazing food and I’m gonna need a lot of calories, so why wouldn’t I drink that on my run?” I ended up with extreme nausea, basically just puking in the bushes.
Sometimes she'd get me hash browns or greasy home fries from a local diner. Or, after eating pasta with olive oil and vegan sausage, I would down a whole pint of coconut milk ice cream and it didn't even make a dent.
06-13-18, 01:10 PM
#167
The Left Coast, USA
LOL, lots to unpack there. Jurek is...well, Jurek.
Personally, I've been impressed with Dean Karnasas' journey, the 50 marathons in 50 days guy. He's more or less Paleo, 52 now, still running marathons, and has a healthy respect for how hereditary is such a big factor in athletic potential. Reading his books was enjoyable, hyperbole aside.
To resolve your post, I will acknowledge there is a big difference in attitude and practice for those who view the goal as winning; that beating everyone else in the measure of success ... and a successful diet.
Personally, I've been impressed with Dean Karnasas' journey, the 50 marathons in 50 days guy. He's more or less Paleo, 52 now, still running marathons, and has a healthy respect for how hereditary is such a big factor in athletic potential. Reading his books was enjoyable, hyperbole aside.
To resolve your post, I will acknowledge there is a big difference in attitude and practice for those who view the goal as winning; that beating everyone else in the measure of success ... and a successful diet.
06-13-18, 02:31 PM
#168
☢
Thread Starter
I think you're looking at it backwards. If one only speaks from personal experience, that's really easy to discount. It's just one data point, no controls, and a great possibility that uncontrolled factors could have confounded the result. Plus everyone is different. There are no scientific studies of anything using one one person, or even one trial person and one control person. Makes no sense. You're missing the whole power of the scientific method.
A good practice, and what I do, is to read scientific studies of training or diet methods which produced the sorts of results in which I'm interested. Then I try those methods on myself and see if they work for me. Usually I report my results. I don't randomly experiment on myself with dietary or training programs which have no support in science. Why would I do that, when almost any result one could wish to attain has scientific methods for its attainment already established? Want to increase your FTP? We know how to do that. Want to lose weight? We know how to do that. Usually there are several approaches, all supported by scientific studies. Pick an appealing one and go at it.
I would also like to offer another method for getting ideas which might work for training and diet: see what the largest number of top practitioners of your sport are doing. What do TdF riders eat? How do they train? What do most ultrarunners eat? How do they train? We may not be able to do what they do in terms of volume, but our dietary and training distribution can be similar. You know, there's always one runner who eats bacon, but what's at the aid stations? Piles of bacon or carbs? Did the bacon eater podium in Western States? IOW what's most likely to work for one individual is what has worked best for most folks. See my motto: "Most folks aren't idiots."
So if there's a person out there who says they get great results from some method which has been found by studies not to produce said results, I figure that the person reporting the unusual results is probably unusual or is not actually doing what they say they are doing.
People would rather listen to podcasts or watch videos rather than read scientific studies because it's easy, brainless, and everyone loves them some hero worship. One picture is more powerful for many than a thousand words, see stills of UFOs, etc. And note your data-free photo of a runner. What's that about? I must say, his form is excellent, but you didn't mention that, just stuff about his diet. The diets of ultrarunners may be varied, perhaps their form not so much? See:
https://www.americansportandfitness....-ultra-runners
Or maybe not so much variation, eh? Piles of bacon or carbs?
I suppose I should mention that one of the greatest ultrarunners of all time, Scott Jurek, is a vegan and therefore a high-carb athlete, like most ultrarunners, ultracyclists, TdF riders, etc., etc. Might be something to consider when talking about experience.
And then see form:
https://ultrarunning.com/features/tr...cs-and-drills/
Not much variation in what works best, eh?
A good practice, and what I do, is to read scientific studies of training or diet methods which produced the sorts of results in which I'm interested. Then I try those methods on myself and see if they work for me. Usually I report my results. I don't randomly experiment on myself with dietary or training programs which have no support in science. Why would I do that, when almost any result one could wish to attain has scientific methods for its attainment already established? Want to increase your FTP? We know how to do that. Want to lose weight? We know how to do that. Usually there are several approaches, all supported by scientific studies. Pick an appealing one and go at it.
I would also like to offer another method for getting ideas which might work for training and diet: see what the largest number of top practitioners of your sport are doing. What do TdF riders eat? How do they train? What do most ultrarunners eat? How do they train? We may not be able to do what they do in terms of volume, but our dietary and training distribution can be similar. You know, there's always one runner who eats bacon, but what's at the aid stations? Piles of bacon or carbs? Did the bacon eater podium in Western States? IOW what's most likely to work for one individual is what has worked best for most folks. See my motto: "Most folks aren't idiots."
So if there's a person out there who says they get great results from some method which has been found by studies not to produce said results, I figure that the person reporting the unusual results is probably unusual or is not actually doing what they say they are doing.
People would rather listen to podcasts or watch videos rather than read scientific studies because it's easy, brainless, and everyone loves them some hero worship. One picture is more powerful for many than a thousand words, see stills of UFOs, etc. And note your data-free photo of a runner. What's that about? I must say, his form is excellent, but you didn't mention that, just stuff about his diet. The diets of ultrarunners may be varied, perhaps their form not so much? See:
https://www.americansportandfitness....-ultra-runners
Or maybe not so much variation, eh? Piles of bacon or carbs?
I suppose I should mention that one of the greatest ultrarunners of all time, Scott Jurek, is a vegan and therefore a high-carb athlete, like most ultrarunners, ultracyclists, TdF riders, etc., etc. Might be something to consider when talking about experience.
And then see form:
https://ultrarunning.com/features/tr...cs-and-drills/
Not much variation in what works best, eh?
06-13-18, 05:25 PM
#169
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Not necessarily. At least one good reason is that scientific studies have to be funded which means someone will usually have a vested interest and sometimes even an ulterior motive to get specific results. Then there's always the political influence. Research/studies on marijuana being the most prominent.
06-14-18, 06:43 AM
#170
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What is your guys opinion on Jason Fung?
Ive been doing IF for awhile now. I really believe in it.
I also believe in keeping dairy products at a bare minimum, which is rather difficult if you ask me.
Feel less sluggish, less brain fog and more consistently strong (when I lift)
Ive been doing IF for awhile now. I really believe in it.
I also believe in keeping dairy products at a bare minimum, which is rather difficult if you ask me.
Feel less sluggish, less brain fog and more consistently strong (when I lift)
06-14-18, 09:45 AM
#171
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What is your guys opinion on Jason Fung?
Ive been doing IF for awhile now. I really believe in it.
I also believe in keeping dairy products at a bare minimum, which is rather difficult if you ask me.
Feel less sluggish, less brain fog and more consistently strong (when I lift)
Ive been doing IF for awhile now. I really believe in it.
I also believe in keeping dairy products at a bare minimum, which is rather difficult if you ask me.
Feel less sluggish, less brain fog and more consistently strong (when I lift)
06-14-18, 06:29 PM
#172
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Don't know him but his videos are pretty long (see below) so I'll have to check him out in increments. So far, he seems well versed. Thanks for posting it.
Never noticed any reduced cognition from milk or dairy products. In fact, I likely think clearer due to additional vitamin D, a deficiency for most of the world's population.
Ive been doing IF for awhile now. I really believe in it.
I also believe in keeping dairy products at a bare minimum, which is rather difficult if you ask me.
Feel less sluggish, less brain fog and more consistently strong (when I lift)
I also believe in keeping dairy products at a bare minimum, which is rather difficult if you ask me.
Feel less sluggish, less brain fog and more consistently strong (when I lift)
06-19-18, 01:34 PM
#173
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https://today.uic.edu/daily-fasting-...or-weight-loss
Interesting to see some more broad research on the topic. It also points to the likely reason it works, CICO.
Between the hours of 10 a.m. and 6 p.m. the dieters could eat any type and quantity of food they desired, but for the remaining 16 hours they could only drink water or calorie-free beverages. The study followed the participants for 12 weeks.
When compared to a matched historical control group from a previous weight loss trial on a different type of fasting, the researchers found that those who followed the time-restricted eating diet consumed fewer calories, lost weight and had improvements in blood pressure. On average, participants consumed about 350 fewer calories, lost about 3 percent of their body weightand saw their systolic blood pressure decreased by about 7 millimeters of mercury (mm Hg), the standard measure of blood pressure. All other measures, including fat mass, insulin resistance and cholesterol, were similar to the control group.
“The take-home message from this study is that there are options for weight loss that do not include calorie counting or eliminating certain foods,” said Krista Varady, associate professor of kinesiology and nutrition in the UIC College of Applied Health Sciences and corresponding author on the study.
When compared to a matched historical control group from a previous weight loss trial on a different type of fasting, the researchers found that those who followed the time-restricted eating diet consumed fewer calories, lost weight and had improvements in blood pressure. On average, participants consumed about 350 fewer calories, lost about 3 percent of their body weightand saw their systolic blood pressure decreased by about 7 millimeters of mercury (mm Hg), the standard measure of blood pressure. All other measures, including fat mass, insulin resistance and cholesterol, were similar to the control group.
“The take-home message from this study is that there are options for weight loss that do not include calorie counting or eliminating certain foods,” said Krista Varady, associate professor of kinesiology and nutrition in the UIC College of Applied Health Sciences and corresponding author on the study.
06-19-18, 07:06 PM
#174
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I have yet to see an overweight person who routinely employs fasting as a part of their diet regiment. The even better news is that fasting goes far beyond just a tool in weight management. There are additional physical benefits as well as psychological and spiritual advantages.
Just got my blood work done and the results just keeps getting better. I just need to get more sun. Although vitamin D is the world's greatest nutrient deficiency.
Thanks for the link.
Just got my blood work done and the results just keeps getting better. I just need to get more sun. Although vitamin D is the world's greatest nutrient deficiency.
https://today.uic.edu/daily-fasting-...or-weight-loss
Interesting to see some more broad research on the topic. It also points to the likely reason it works, CICO.
Interesting to see some more broad research on the topic. It also points to the likely reason it works, CICO.
06-20-18, 08:27 AM
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Some more data research on this subject:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27338458
https://www.nmcd-journal.com/article/...100-5/fulltext
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26384657
https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/arti...970-017-0174-y
Long story short, IF isn't really any more effective than constant caloric restriction. Do what fits your lifestyle and what you find easiest to adhere to.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27338458
https://www.nmcd-journal.com/article/...100-5/fulltext
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26384657
https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/arti...970-017-0174-y
Long story short, IF isn't really any more effective than constant caloric restriction. Do what fits your lifestyle and what you find easiest to adhere to.