FBinNY 

That's not an issue. Theft from the USPS falls under the Postal Inspector's purview. If you file a detailed and clear complaint with the inspector's office, they'll make at least a preliminary investigation which should include looking at surveillance film to see if there's anything there.

fietsbob

Stories of eBay sellers, who just drop things like bike frames in an empty box,

and don't bother with the kind of careful packing that would take time from their precious lives..

are many..

Chombi1 

But would they let a "walk in" customer just do thst without any special arrangements?
That's what I was thinking, and that's what I think occurred with the OP....

fietsbob

We here have a relationship with one of our former part time workers , who was also career Coast Guard,

he was transferred to the Kodiak Island base, , and has gotten a lot of stuff shipped USPS.. because UPS is sparse and delays shipments until they get a full load.
[ lots of others there, wanted fat bikes upon seeing his.. ]

They moved a lot of their Helicopters and planes to higher ground or just got them in the air
when the earthquake south of there happened this week..




...

CliffordK

USPS is a semi-autonomous, semi-government organization. It is quite possible you would be able to get the footage. A lot of info may well be available through a FOIA request too, and of course discovery/subpoenas.

If it ends up with a lawsuit, you can always subpoena the tapes.

I'm seeing notes on the internet that "fake cameras" may, in fact, be a liability for the company that installs them. In this case, you have an allegedly stolen item that should show up on the cameras. It is possible that a judge or jury would accept that fake cameras (which some employees probably knew about) = LIABILITY. And also accept your assumption that the cameras (whether you had noticed them or not) was part of a working security system when you elected to use the PO services.

Possible steps (not necessarily in this order):

• Deal with E-Bay first. You can inform the buyer that you'll talk to them if you actually find the frame and give them the first crack at it.
• Follow the chain of command up to the top at the post office. Are there regional managers?
• Find out if this is an isolated incident. Hard to believe yours would be the first and last, although perhaps the PO isn't keeping adequate records. Another thing that could be subpoenaed, and they should be asked why records are incomplete.
• File a police report. Hopefully you track your serial numbers. Also ask the police if they've had similar claims.
• Talk to your local Federal congressmen and representatives. I don't know what their oversight is, but the USPS is a semi-government agency, and wouldn't do well if the carpet was yanked from under them.
• Lawsuit. It is quite possible that this would fall under "Small Claims", and require minimal fees, and not necessarily require you to bring a lawyer. You still should have "Discovery", and Subpoenas. Expect the post office to at least comb through your E-Bay history.

Good Luck!

CliffordK

The customer didn't just drop off an unlabeled box. He apparently had a pre-printed label and sent a manifest to the USPS, including a tracking number (but apparently no arrival scan).

I would think prior E-Bay experience would also back this up, including the number of sales and overall feedback rating.

FBinNY 

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. No, they won't let you look at the surveillance, and it would be wrong if they did. But they'll look at it, and if they see the package, will be very interested in knowing where it went off the radar.

I know folks distrust institutions, but the reality is that those charged with security do actually care, and do follow stuff to the extent it's possible. They catch thieves and problem employees all the time, mostly in response to a pattern of complaints. Keep in mind that if there's a thief operating out of a PO, it won't be a one time thing.

FBinNY 

It might make a difference to ebay, but not legally. There is plenty of law and case law relating to common carriers and proof of claim. It boils down to a simple rule that the carrier takes responsibility when they sign for the shipment, and is relieved of that when it's signed for by the consignee.

There are exceptions, and workarounds but they're very much the exceptions to the rules, which are basically no tickee, no washee.

CliffordK

Perhaps.

I've always thought that once I get a letter into a blue box, that it is USPS's responsibility. And some of those boxes also accept packages, or there are methods to drop off packages without anybody there. The building should be an extension of the blue box (assuming the package was left in a restricted area, and not just on the lobby floor).

Was there a desk in the middle of the lobby that the OP used, or did the box immediately go behind the counter into the restricted area?

No "receipt" is a problem, but I've never been certain when stuff gets scanned anyway. I've seen my packages getting tossed into a bin behind the counter, perhaps without an acceptance scan.

DrIsotope

People seem to make a mistake with regards to the USPS. If you want to get something shipped reasonably fast for reasonable money, the're your go-to. And statistically, they're the the most dependable, The issue is the sheer numbers. In 2016 the USPS delivered 4.5 billion pieces of mail (from postcards to packages.) If they were 99.99% accurate, they would lose over 4 million articles a year.

If you want security, ship UPS. I've had more issues with FedEx than any other carrier, incoming or outbound-- at my peak, I was doing around 1,000 packages a year, and in 15 years the USPS lost two.

FBinNY 

It's not a matter of whether one leaves a letter or package, but a standard of proof.

Let's consider the hypothetical letter. You're right that once it's tendered, by being dropped in the box, it's the post office's responsibility, with an implied contract to deliver to the addressee. You can't get it back, even if you beg.

But, let's say that letter contained a check for the IRS, and gets lost causing you to incur a penalty. So, it's just your word vs. the fact that the check was never cashed. You can beg, plead, scream and cry, but the answer will be you lose, and maybe followed by "That's why there's certified mail".

So, like everything else, the facts are one thing, but establishing them is another, and that's what matters.

exmechanic89

Wow OP, that is infuriating! Really sorry this happened to you, that just plain sucks.

jamesdak 

I've been totally screwed by E-Bay in the past. Bought multiple items from one seller. He shows them as all shipped in one package but only 1/2 gets shipped. I had days and says of message traffic via Ebay where the seller admitted sending the right of the stuff somewhere else. I filed a claim and provided copies of all the message traffic. Their answer..."systems shows items sent and delivered, case closed" I have no faith in Ebay's protection at all.

Don Buska

My USPS delivery person scans my outgoing boxes immediately. I've shipped things up to 75 lbs without incident. Albeit, my address is served by a mail truck with each house having a mail box at the road. BTW, if I leave a note in the box they will ring my door to pick up a box too! So perhaps it's different in other places.

CliffordK

I've had that happen too. Took a photo of the packing slip/weight. And, was able to prove that the shipping weight indicated only one item was shipped (heavy enough that it was noticeable). Seller never responded to my e-mails or the dispute, but it was resolved in my favor.

However, my point was, if the OP is a long-time e-bay seller, then he should have record of satisfied customers, and not trying to defraud the shipping companies, which would further support the claim that the package did, in fact, get dropped off at the Post Office.

CliffordK

Where was the package "dropped off"?

Behind a close half-door?
Middle of the lobby?
Stamps & Misc desk in the lobby?

I'm wondering if the box was set aside in the lobby, and never taken into the back room by the post office staff. Then a customer snagged the untended box.

Keep an eye open for the bike on your local Craigslist and E-Bay.

wrk101

My carrier picks up everything. Rarely is an item less than one pound. He picked up ten items Monday (Mondays are typically the most as it represents sales from mid Saturday and through Sunday night). Picked up five more today. Its usually a couple of items per day, 99% priority mail, some media mail, some first class. He's been doing it for years.


The post office's click and ship program includes any item where you print the label on line, through their site, I've never noticed a weight limit.

Shipping Bikeflights (Fed Ex) means I either pay $5 more for pickup at my home, or I drop off at one of their shipping partners. At those partners, my items are never scanned in, they only get scanned in when Fed Ex driver arrives for the pickup.

Google shipper problems, I bet you will get thousands (probably millions) of complaints on each carrier. None are perfect, not close. I ship a lot of items in the USPS flat rate padded envelope, its amazing what you can stuff into one of those! No other carrier has a comparable product, at a comparable price. I shipped a crankset to Hawaii, cost me $6.30 (I get a discount on USPS rates).


Bike flights of course doesn't ship anything. They are a broker, and they offer attractive rates on Fed Ex, cheaper than I can get directly.

abellanti

good idea...maybe to only option I have left

abellanti

I actually handed it to a person behind the counter and they placed it on the floor. He indicated since it was a prepaid shipping label I didn't need to do anything else. In hindsight......

abellanti

I still ship lots of little parts through USPS and have had only a couple issues. But when it comes to frames worth hundreds or bikes worth thousands....I'll choose FedEX. Their tracking and customer service is way better.

katsup

I have done further reading and you guys are right. From how I understand it, you are suppose to schedule a pickup for non first class packages, but I am sure results will vary depending on the mail carrier.

Majority of my shipments are first class and I usually just put them in the mailbox and raise the flag.

wrk101

Since the post office employee took it behind the counter, sounds like a different situation. It should show up on their video, both you dropping it off and the employee taking it behind the counter. Moving up the chain with the PO seems to be in order.


"Majority of my shipments are first class and I usually just put them in the mailbox and raise the flag." I stopped doing this as items were being stolen out of mailboxes in our neighborhood, and the flag just told the thieves that there was something in there. Instead, I raise the flag, put a note in the box: Packages on front porch. Thanks!" Porch is covered, and items left there are not visible from the street.

I do not use the post office schedule a shipment process as I am shipping something almost every day. Its unusual to not have an item. Years ago our postal carrier mentioned that he would gladly pick up all of our packages, no problem! He noticed I was getting a lot of priority mail supplies, and he saw me loading packages in the car to go to the post office. So I stopped going to the post office with my stuff. An added benefit is our mail delivery is late in the day. So its the only way I can ship stuff Saturday afternoon, well after our post office is closed.

Almost all of my bike parts are shipped in a padded flat rate envelope (no wheels of course). Shipping a set of vintage BMX pedals tomorrow, 1 to 2 pounds in weight, to California, for $6.90 (rates went up this week). I don't know a cheaper method, and the buyer should get them in 3 days.

Frames and bikes almost all go through Bike Flights/Fed Ex, as their rates tend to be better.

CliffordK

That is assuming thieves can't read.

But, I suppose it also depends if they are brash enough to snag something off of a porch.

canklecat

Always get a tracking number and receipt.

Years ago I shipped lots of large and valuable items USPS, including overseas. No problems.

But the post office is struggling with a Congressional mandate passed 10 years ago that was designed to cripple the post office in favor of private carriers that lobbied Congress for favors. The post office was required to prefund the retirement system, placing a burden of billions of dollars on the USPS.

The deadline for the mandate came a few months ago, September 2017 I think. So despite the recent efforts of the post office to dig themselves out of this mess, they are struggling right now.

Best thing to do for now is use another carrier. Wait until the post office can sort out this mess.

Most USPS problems are local or regional. Call, email or write the ombudsman in Washington DC to report problems. They'll put pressure on the local and regional postmaster to fix the problems. That's what it took in our area after repeated delivery problems a few years ago.

Since then we've had one of the best neighborhood letter carriers I've ever known. She's a real treasure. But we had to endure a lot of indifferent and overworked veteran and temp carriers between 2012 and 2016 before the problem was resolved.

Steve Whitlatch 

I am in Transportation. I don`t care what carrier you use, if you ship enough through them expect something to get lost stolen or damaged. It happens. They will all try hard to not pay you as well.