Paul Barnard

I am in Colorado now. The forest service roads and county maintained dirt roads vary widely in condition. I have posted a few pics along the way of some different roads. Some are almost tarmac smooth. Others are rough. Being from NOLA, I am not a climber at all, and I am not a model of fitness. My "gravel" bike climbs well. I pass far more 29er MTBs than pass me. But when things start going downhill they eat my lunch. I have to ride the brakes because some of the surface irregularities are dangerous descending at speed on 32mm tires and no suspension.

I may occupy rare ground in this discussion. Gravel bikes are just another master of none bikes. Road bikes are better on the road, and MTBs are better in many offroad conditions. With that said, I have done some rides where either a road bike or an MTB would have sucked. A 60 mile loop that's about 70% pavement, 15% smooth dirt/gravel and 15% moderately rough gravel. I am thrilled with my build!

u235

My "gravel bike" is also my road bike, comfort bike, off road bike and light singletrack. Works for me. I don't care if others don't like it.

Edit add. Also my ~ 1 week off road touring bike with 25# of rack, panniers, and handlebar bag strapped on.

Maelochs

Yup. Swap the wheels and head out. mine is also my rain bike, camera bike, and light-touring bike.

sgtrobo

a gravel bike is nothing more than an endurance road bike with big tires. What does that mean?

1. Comfort over a long ride
2. Ability to take some 'road less traveled' type rides
3. Ability to link together long stretches of pavement with rides through wooded areas

Sure you could do this all with a mountain bike, but you'd be slow as heck on the pavement and you don't have nearly as many hand position options.

gravel bikes are accepted because they aren't compromises, and hybrids tend to be compromises, i.e. they frequently (not all of them, but many of them) end up being the 'worst' of both worlds, i.e. they lack the tire clearance and ruggedness of a MTB while lacking the speed and light weight of a road bike.

sgtrobo

amen.

mstateglfr 

From Trek's website...

FX 1 is a hybrid bike with a lightweight aluminum frame and upgrades on the parts that make the biggest difference in performance. It's perfect for anyone looking to get out more, ride as a family, do a bit of exercise, or commute to work on a versatile bike backed by a lifetime warranty.

I ride with a few dozen kids who use fx1 bikes. They are as hybrid as it gets. MTB drivetrain, smooth tires wider than road and narrower than MTB, and upright position.

pretty hybrid right there.

mojojojo

Isn't anti hybrid & anti flat bar snobbery just an American phenomena?

Copenhagen below.

subgrade

Didn't anyone notice that there's no way this picture is from 1904? It can't be older than late 1920s, just look at the car and the motorcycle.

Motorcycles from 1904 looked like this:


while cars from 1904 looked like this:


Not that it matters regarding the discussion at hand. To that my 2 cents are - gravel bikes are essentially hybrids, while the term "hybrid" now describes a narrow, comfort oriented class of all the bikes that are indeed hybrids.

tagaproject6

Anyone who is deriding anything that they do not agree with or NOT traditional or any other logically flawed reason is usually a part of the problem.

Different bikes for different people for different reasons that they feel is appropriate for their particular set of values should not really be derided by anyone.

This is why people yell

Caliper

32mm is really more of a CX or endurance road bike tire, and would have problems when you get into sand and deeper gravel because it is likely to dig in as you have experienced. Typically gravel bike tires occupy the space between a CX tire and a MTB tire, with clearance for 40-45mm being a common advertising point. If you can fit them, those larger tires will help with a lot of those surface issues. I don't think anyone pushed gravel bikes as a good offroad bike, they are for gravel ROADS. Think of it as "offroad" for a road biker, but not really offroad in a true sense. In offroad capability, a gravel bike would have less capability than a rigid MTB due to smaller and less aggressive tires. A gravel bike is built for places that are going to be difficult or impassable for a 23mm pavement tire, but still a road, not something that you would want a 4WD to get down. Perhaps CO doesn't have much of these places? Around me, there are more miles this sort of road than anything else. Honestly, unless someone lives in a subdivision in town, they probably live on a gravel road and a gravel bike is going to be the best thing.


Have you considered that if you are beating trucks down the hill that possibly your skill and comfort level at descending are above average? I know I'm a total wimp descending if there is a loose surface and turns. On a paved descent I'm always looking to better my max speed, but off pavement I just never trust my traction because those loose rocks are like marbles ontop of the dirt...

Truthfully, the roads around me are light on actual gravel also, the DOT is too cheap. It'd not like the pics of the Dirty Kana here. Mostly, they just grade the dirt. Where the surface is good, it is packed and hard to where you could ride a 23mm tire on a dry day. But, there's also all the low traffic and low maintenance road issues that you'd expect and would suck a 23mm tire into a wreck, plus in MI the roads may take a few days to really dry out after a rain (and we get a fair amount of rain) so wider and a bit of tread is better. I can ride most roads with a 32mm CX type tire, and there are a bunch of CX riders around also. I prefer a larger tire though because there are plenty of spots where a 32 will just be a pain and the extra width just rolls over the gravel/sand/washboard far better. A MTB is slow on these roads due to the aggressive tires and upright posture. I used to ride one around and felt like a human parachute plus the relatively fixed position got uncomfortable over long stretches. Road bike riding styles are far better here since I'm heading down the same road for miles and hanging out in the drops is the best thing for that. Yes, touring bikes are similar. One of the bikes I ride on gravel a lot is an old steel touring frameset the bike now wears 700x37 tires that run maybe a little fat but lets me ride any road I've come across.

For all the stuff you're describing, I'd probably grab my drop bar 29er / "monstercross" bike. It started out as a MTB but once I got tired of dealing with flat bars on gravel roads it got woodchippers and SRAM 2x10 along with less aggressive 700x50 tires. It does MTB trails well within my skills as well as the "unimproved" / hunters access roads but is far better on the ride to/from these locations.

Skipjacks

What's the lock for?

"We have incoming tank fire! We need to advance to that hill to get a clear radio signal to call in close air support from the A-10's! MOVE NOW!! GO!!!"

"Uhh..pardon me sir. This is a bit of an unsavory neighborhood. I need to secure my bike to this sign post before I can run up the hill and call in an air support."

Hypno Toad

Reference: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_ho-z.html#hybrid

"Hybrid" is a wide term that can also be applied to gravel bikes (mountain bike and road bike) and adventure bikes (touring bike and mountain bike) and CX bikes (mountain bike and road bike). From my perspective, the FX 1 is a flat-bar road bike, I'm aware that's not a term marketers like and doesn't market well to the people these bikes appeal to.

I made a point earlier in this thread to say I don't dislike variations of "hybrid bikes". Lisa's enjoyed a flat-bar road bike for many years (Marin Lucas Valley), and our daughter did her first century on this bike. I don't dislike flat-bar road bikes, and if you'd like to refer to them as "hybrid", cool. From my perspective, "hybrid bikes" are comfort-only focused bikes, and a flat-bar road bike has a blending speed and comfort focus.

Frankly, I love the wide ranging configurations of bikes available today. I grew up with years of 'only' road bikes (AKA 10-speed), years of only MTBs, ... The last few years have allowed bikes to be more diverse and allow us to buy the bikes that matches our needs/wants and not be shoe-horned into the small number of bikes styles available. And I'm that person that still is pushing into places nobody makes/sells/markets bike - like my drop-bar fatbike.

Hypno Toad

Happy Feet

and why is an American Soldier holding a bike with a Nazi army unit designation?

Hypno Toad

+1

Hypno Toad

Who's anti-flat-bar? Most people that uses a bike for transportation have a flat-bar bike. The issue in the US, more riders only ride for sport/fitness and fewer riders use bikes for transportation. Living in one of the best bike cities (Minneapolis), the pic above looks like rush hour here.

Caliper

Ok, here's a thought... The typical "hybrid" marketing term takes the handlebars of a MTB with the tires (almost) of a road bike. Flat bars and skinny-ish tires. If a gravel bike is a hybrid, it's the opposite hybridization; the tires (almost) of a MTB with the bars of road bike? It's the parts that were left behind in making the first hybrid... Interesting perspective. I still maintain that the basic spec of a modern gravel bike predated the current road bike or MTB so a gravel bike is a bit more of a throwback than a hybridization, but I see the direction there.

sgtrobo, if you take a look at the gravel ride pic thread in that subforum, I think many gravel bike users seem to shun pavement rather than link together long stretches of pavement... I know I intentionally work to avoid pavement on my rides. The backroads are just far more pleasant.


Ha, apparently not so much. We were all looking at the bike... Of course, you're right... Now I want to do more photo searches.

Skipjacks

About this "whats' faster on what surface" nonsense....

The rider is BY FAR the most important factor in how fast a bike is.

Am I faster on roads on a carbon fiber road bike with tires the width of a human hair than I am on a 26 inch wheel Wal Mart mountain bike that weights more than a late model Buick? Of course I am. I'm the same. The bikes are different.

But is someone else on the carbon fiber road bike faster than me on the Wal Mart brick with wheels? Maybe. Maybe not.

I ride a Specialized Crosstrail. When I'm out on the local rail trail I blow past Tour de France LARPers on $3000 carbon fiber racing bikes (and $4000 custom matching neon spandex outfits and aero helmets) hunched over in the drop bars like they were sitting still.

And then there are 20 year olds on Wal Mart mountain bikes who don't know the difference between a bottom bracket and a tennis racket that pass me like I'm going backwards.

I'd venture to say the actual Tour de France riders could pass me on a Unicycle without breaking a sweat.

If the bikes are equal, obviously the stronger rider will be faster.

If the riders are equal, the faster bike will be faster.

If neither the bikes or the riders are equal, the much stronger rider is still going to be faster regardless of the bike.

The Crosstrail is marketed as a hybrid bike that's ridable on all but the worst rocky trails. And that has proved true. I wouldn't downhill race it on a mountain course. But I'd ride it just about anywhere else. Sometimes on a road I wish it was a little zipper, but then I couldn't ride it very well when I'm crossing a bumpy dirt hill. Sometimes on a bumpy dirt hill I wish it was a little easier to ride, but then it'd be even slower on the road. And it does all that while supporting the added weight of a rack with a full load.

So for my 'go anywhere I feel like' bike my Crosstrail is great. I'm not limited by most terrain. It's not the fastest on any specific surface, but there is almost no surface where it's useless.

I've been thinking about getting another more road focused bike for long rides, but my hybrid is perfect for my daily use bike when I might need to carry a lot of stuff with me.

JonathanGennick 

Oh wow! Yeah. Interesting! I had not ever thought of it from that point of view. Whatever the case, I like the options we have today for gravel riding. I'm glad the concept has caught on. The wider tire options are what do it for me. Love having wider choices that are suitable for pavement.

u235

There are no MTB there in that pic. I guess Denmark is against MTB? Your picture and conclusion has a few falacies. These people are commuting. Their decision is based on commuting. Have you ever been to a large city in the US? Same as any other area using bikes for commuting like this one from Chicago

Maelochs

Oi.

First off, I spent many, many years commuting---at least half on flat-bar bikes. Anyone who thinks flat-bar bikes only offer one posture should get one and learn.

Second--the best option is that everyone find an option that suits.

Some person rides a "hybrid" and likes it? Cool. Some other person rides a different kind of "hybrid" and likes it? Equally cool. Some other person doesn't call either bike a "hybrid"? Cool with me.

if I needed people to accept what I do, I would stay home in bed .... and people would Still complain.

Ride what you like, like what you ride.

If you have a greater need to be "accepted" on the bike you ride than to ride on the bike you like ... I cannot help you. Otherwise ... ride what suits your ride. It isn't hard at all ... . don't make it hard.

Gresp15C

The Nazi was too busy to lock it.

Skipjacks

But the lock was right on the frame! It was right there! If only he'd have taken the time, Germany would have won the war.

Thank goodness for the laziness of this lone Nazi cyclist. His actions that led to the Americans obtaining this bike were a turning point in the Second World War.

himespau 

Nah, it's for when you run out of bullets and someone needs a good lock upside the head.

mstateglfr 

what I notice first is that only 6 out of the 31 people i can see commuting have helmets.
less than 20% is unfortunate.

it isnt about if you are a safe rider, it's about everyone else around you- cars, bikes, and walkers.

ride a bike? Wear a helmet.
ride a horse? Wear a helmet.
ride a motorcycle? Wear a helmet.

there just isn't a downside to wearing one.
pretty simple. Hope it eventually takes hold over there.