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Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

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Old 06-18-13, 02:35 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by frantik
I hate the Prius and my opinions of their owners vary.

The typical Prius owner does not realize the Prius is actually one of the worst cars on earth when it comes to environmental impact and this stems from the mining, processing, and transport of the metals required to manufacture it's batteries. The 55mpg you get and the fact it is also one of the ugliest cars on earth comes at a steep price to the environment.

The Jetta TDI delivers real world mileage that is comparable to and can exceed the hybrid version and is a lot more fun to drive... and there is not any issue with what to do with the batteries when they need to be recycled.

These greener than thou drivers do not realize that the manufacture of their hybrids causes great deals of pollution because they do not see it... electricity also has to be generated somehow and in many places the fuel choice is still coal.

My non turbo Golf diesel delivered well over 70mpg... it was a little gutless but made up time passing gas station after gas station.

My 20 year old Nissan GXE gets a combined mileage in the low 30's and can top 40mpg on the highway and after nearly 250,000 km isn't ready for retirement because everything is still tight as tight can be.
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Old 06-18-13, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver
I hate the Prius and my opinions of their owners vary.

The typical Prius owner does not realize the Prius is actually one of the worst cars on earth when it comes to environmental impact and this stems from the mining, processing, and transport of the metals required to manufacture it's batteries. The 55mpg you get and the fact it is also one of the ugliest cars on earth comes at a steep price to the environment.

The Jetta TDI delivers real world mileage that is comparable to and can exceed the hybrid version and is a lot more fun to drive... and there is not any issue with what to do with the batteries when they need to be recycled.

These greener than thou drivers do not realize that the manufacture of their hybrids causes great deals of pollution because they do not see it... electricity also has to be generated somehow and in many places the fuel choice is still coal.

My non turbo Golf diesel delivered well over 70mpg... it was a little gutless but made up time passing gas station after gas station.

My 20 year old Nissan GXE gets a combined mileage in the low 30's and can top 40mpg on the highway and after nearly 250,000 km isn't ready for retirement because everything is still tight as tight can be.
I'm far from an expert on this as I prefer the bicycle and public transit to the private motorcar, but I hardly think people who own hybrids are necessarily "holier than thou". Why throw invectives around that way? People who own these cars may be misguided, although I've read about people who charge their cars with solar energy, and there are others that argue that hybrids are indeed better for the environment:

https://www.snspost.com/debunking-hybrid-myths-2/
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Old 06-18-13, 04:12 PM
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I don't know of any that I haven't already seen on bikeforums. I do love good slogans. They are memorable and make people think. An important message can be conveyed with just a few clever words.
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Old 06-18-13, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Recognizing holier-than-thou behavior/attitude ain't the same as hating.

If someone like the OP wishes to convey a positive message to the broader society it helps to be able to recognize holier-than-thou behavior/attitude/messages that will have a negative impact on that broader society.
Sorry to be unclear, but in slang, "hating on" somebody is different than just "hating" them.

BTW, I was thinking of a number of political slogans that were negative or smug sounding, but highly persuasive. In th American Revolution you find a lot of these.

https://ask.metafilter.com/29830/Revo...ry-War-Slogans

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Old 06-18-13, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by frantik
The owner of that particular Prius must have something wrong with their minds. I think it's an insult to our soldiers who are putting their lives on the line to fight real terrorism.

Last edited by wolfchild; 06-18-13 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 06-18-13, 07:31 PM
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I've seen some of these before, others just seem variations on a theme; I don't have anything original.

Truthfully, as many people that have been around as many years as they have, promoting the lifestyle (Grant Peterson, for example), I think a real crowd-pleaser would already have been put out there. It may take something as 'dumbed down' as basic math, showing why cars are so bad and bikes so much better. But again, I'm drawing a blank.
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Old 06-18-13, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
The owner of that particular Prius must have something wrong with their minds. I think it's an insult to our soldiers who are putting their lives on the line to fight real terrorism.
I don't see how it's insulting, although I prefer, RIDING AGAINST OIL WARS.

During WWII the US government put out a poster that read: WHEN YOU RIDE ALONE YOU RIDE WITH HITLER! JOIN A CAR-SHARING CLUB TODAY!
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Old 06-18-13, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
The owner of that particular Prius must have something wrong with their minds. I think it's an insult to our soldiers who are putting their lives on the line to fight real terrorism.

i wish this were the politics forum so i could fully reply to your post, but yeah that car is silly.
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Old 06-18-13, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver
I hate the Prius and my opinions of their owners vary.

The typical Prius owner does not realize the Prius is actually one of the worst cars on earth when it comes to environmental impact and this stems from the mining, processing, and transport of the metals required to manufacture it's batteries. The 55mpg you get and the fact it is also one of the ugliest cars on earth comes at a steep price to the environment.
Glad you pointed this out. I thought others had missed it.
Prius owners also create an intolerable level of smarm.

However, I stopped hating them completely one morning in the lane behind one of them and .... No emissions at the light!
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Old 06-18-13, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by gerv
Prius owners also create an intolerable level of smarm.
So can some car free bicyclists, read some of the smarmy Car Free slogans and justification for waving them in others' faces.

Note: I could be mistaken but I believe some of the more smarmy slogans have been edited out by the original posters, perhaps after reconsidering the OP's desire for slogans that convey a good message, without seeming presumptuous and greener-than-thou.
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Old 06-19-13, 03:16 AM
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I would never wear a jersey with "three feet please" on it. For every 100 people that were not enraged by it there would be one who would have hated a cyclist anyway, but would be so pissed that they would pass even closer.
And I certainly would not wear the evolution jersey. In an area that I have seriously considered buying a Nascar jersey or having one made that would be a bad idea. I have had cars vandalized for pro agnostic bumper stickers.
Possibly the "I am a taxpayer". That would possibly be ok until some anti tax/gubmint fruitloop went by.

I thought about an anti smug jersey, with the phrase "I burn a tire a day" with a pic of a flaming truck tire or the like on it, but then some hybrid driving tree hugger might take a swipe.

Seriously, why not just wear something that keeps you warm or cool, has some visibility propertys, and fits. I don't like people telling me what to think or what I should be doing and if they are pushy enough I have expressed that, at times with a bit of anger. Preaching from a bicycle on the side of the road to strangers who literally hold your life in their possibly drunk, possibly unmedicated, possibly dyslexic and with a tendancy to swerve at what they are trying to read hands?
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Old 06-19-13, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver
I hate the Prius and my opinions of their owners vary.

The typical Prius owner does not realize the Prius is actually one of the worst cars on earth when it comes to environmental impact and this stems from the mining, processing, and transport of the metals required to manufacture it's batteries. The 55mpg you get and the fact it is also one of the ugliest cars on earth comes at a steep price to the environment.

The Jetta TDI delivers real world mileage that is comparable to and can exceed the hybrid version and is a lot more fun to drive... and there is not any issue with what to do with the batteries when they need to be recycled.

These greener than thou drivers do not realize that the manufacture of their hybrids causes great deals of pollution because they do not see it... electricity also has to be generated somehow and in many places the fuel choice is still coal.

My non turbo Golf diesel delivered well over 70mpg... it was a little gutless but made up time passing gas station after gas station.

My 20 year old Nissan GXE gets a combined mileage in the low 30's and can top 40mpg on the highway and after nearly 250,000 km isn't ready for retirement because everything is still tight as tight can be.
Opinions on this are pretty varied, and as an electric car enthusiast I have read many "proofs" one way or the other. Complete strangers will come up to an electric car driver and start lecturing on the "moving the tailpipe" meme. The recyclability of batteries is pretty good, but with some energy waste in doing so. All in all its a Six of one Half dozen of the other issue. Every statement made by one camp tends to have some more or less provable counter argument.
But I say the hell with it. probably almost every dink who has ever confronted an electric or a hybrid owner on the street has personally produced one or two(or more) children who they had no problem buying massive amounts of battery powered toys, including a toy vehicle of some sort, and as they don't tend to last, probably more than one. And very few of those batteries end up being recycled in any fashion.
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Old 06-19-13, 07:03 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Recognizing holier-than-thou behavior/attitude ain't the same as hating.

If someone like the OP wishes to convey a positive message to the broader society it helps to be able to recognize holier-than-thou behavior/attitude/messages that will have a negative impact on that broader society.
Agree with you for once..

My attitude towards certain things is one thing, but I'm not going to wear a t-shirt with my ideals printed on it. That's a bit much..
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Old 06-19-13, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver
I hate the Prius and my opinions of their owners vary.

The typical Prius owner does not realize the Prius is actually one of the worst cars on earth when it comes to environmental impact and this stems from the mining, processing, and transport of the metals required to manufacture it's batteries. The 55mpg you get and the fact it is also one of the ugliest cars on earth comes at a steep price to the environment.

The Jetta TDI delivers real world mileage that is comparable to and can exceed the hybrid version and is a lot more fun to drive... and there is not any issue with what to do with the batteries when they need to be recycled.

These greener than thou drivers do not realize that the manufacture of their hybrids causes great deals of pollution because they do not see it... electricity also has to be generated somehow and in many places the fuel choice is still coal.

My non turbo Golf diesel delivered well over 70mpg... it was a little gutless but made up time passing gas station after gas station.

My 20 year old Nissan GXE gets a combined mileage in the low 30's and can top 40mpg on the highway and after nearly 250,000 km isn't ready for retirement because everything is still tight as tight can be.
Mostly agree, but Jetta TDI also emits 1.5x more grams C02 per km.

edit: hmm. I was going to point out that the Prius is not a plug in hyrbid, but looks like it now is https://www.toyota.com/prius-plug-in/

For a plug in hybrid or electric though, yes, the USA in particular has a lot of electricity still being generated from coal burning plants. Canada however does not *smug*

Last edited by kmv2; 06-19-13 at 07:13 AM.
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Old 06-19-13, 07:26 AM
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it seems i managed to derail a car-free topic into talking about cars.. winning? lol
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Old 06-19-13, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by shipwreck
I would never wear a jersey with "three feet please" on it. For every 100 people that were not enraged by it there would be one who would have hated a cyclist anyway, but would be so pissed that they would pass even closer.
i agree you're asking for it with that one. also the "same roads same rules" one could easily be rebuffed by simply mentioning the fact most cyclists don't bother to stop at stop signs
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Old 06-19-13, 08:27 AM
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Wow, this has certainly gone down another road than I anticipated.

I think its important to delineate arguments about whether or not you'd wear certain slogans, or how effective it is to convey such messages, from the validity of the messages themselves.

While I'm certainly not against discussing the how to best use slogans and messages (you could just call them propaganda, and I don't mean that negatively), I would love people to submit clever ideas for slogans and memes, rather than merely debating the merits of their use.

Whether or not to deploy slogans is a personal decision, but crowdsourcing good ideas is a communal project that can really be furthered on forums like this.








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Old 06-19-13, 08:32 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by frantik
i agree you're asking for it with that one. also the "same roads same rules" one could easily be rebuffed by simply mentioning the fact most cyclists don't bother to stop at stop signs
Nobody stops at stop signs though.
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Old 06-19-13, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by shipwreck
I would never wear a jersey with "three feet please" on it. For every 100 people that were not enraged by it there would be one who would have hated a cyclist anyway, but would be so pissed that they would pass even closer.
And I certainly would not wear the evolution jersey. In an area that I have seriously considered buying a Nascar jersey or having one made that would be a bad idea. I have had cars vandalized for pro agnostic bumper stickers.
Possibly the "I am a taxpayer". That would possibly be ok until some anti tax/gubmint fruitloop went by.

I thought about an anti smug jersey, with the phrase "I burn a tire a day" with a pic of a flaming truck tire or the like on it, but then some hybrid driving tree hugger might take a swipe.

Seriously, why not just wear something that keeps you warm or cool, has some visibility propertys, and fits. I don't like people telling me what to think or what I should be doing and if they are pushy enough I have expressed that, at times with a bit of anger. Preaching from a bicycle on the side of the road to strangers who literally hold your life in their possibly drunk, possibly unmedicated, possibly dyslexic and with a tendancy to swerve at what they are trying to read hands?
You could not possibly be more smug than this post! Not even if you were wearing a message tee while driving a Prius with 12 bumper stickers plastered on it.

Why do you think it's smug to express environmentalist slogans, while you are apparently OK with agnostic slogans? Why is it OK to support your religion (or lack of) but crude to support your planet? Why is it fashionable to advertise NASCAR but passé to represent transportation bicycling? For that matter, why is environmentalism the only cause I ever hear described as smug? Smugness in defense of Earth Day is no vice!

I am sorry to hear that you must live in fear that a crazed motorist will murder you because he doesn't like your tee-shirt. Are you commuting to downtown Damascus, by any chance?

When it comes to tee-shirts, some of the older people on this forum have no sense of humor, and above all, no sense of fashion! And of course there are others, like me, who just plain have no sense....



(sorry--do you also disapprove of emoticons?)
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Old 06-19-13, 10:02 AM
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This whole convo reminds me of the Smug Alert episode of South Park.
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Old 06-19-13, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by wagonfanatic
Wow, this has certainly gone down another road than I anticipated.

I think its important to delineate arguments about whether or not you'd wear certain slogans, or how effective it is to convey such messages, from the validity of the messages themselves.

While I'm certainly not against discussing the how to best use slogans and messages (you could just call them propaganda, and I don't mean that negatively), I would love people to submit clever ideas for slogans and memes, rather than merely debating the merits of their use.

Whether or not to deploy slogans is a personal decision, but crowdsourcing good ideas is a communal project that can really be furthered on forums like this.
I'm sorry to be a party in derailing your thread. But you do have to realize that if you introduce political content, you're going to generate a lot of heat (and flames!). People who are reluctant to express themselves on a tee-shirt will speak right up on an anonymous Internet forum. That's what democracy looks like.

I think I accidentally came up with a decent slogan in my last post:

"Smugness in the defense of the environment is no vice"

Or would this be better?

"Smugness in the defense of bikes is no vice"

(Sorry, Barry Goldwater)
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Old 06-19-13, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by UberGeek
This whole convo reminds me of the Smug Alert episode of South Park.
That's where they got it from.
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Old 06-19-13, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Roody
When it comes to tee-shirts, some of the older people on this forum have no sense of humor, and above all, no sense of fashion!
Sez You!
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Old 06-19-13, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Roody
I think I accidentally came up with a decent slogan in my last post:

"Smugness in the defense of the environment is no vice"

Or would this be better?

"Smugness in the defense of bikes is no vice"

(Sorry, Barry Goldwater)
What did the original Goldwater slogan accomplish for him in 1964, other than focus the disgust many voters had for him and his "extreme" ideas?
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Old 06-19-13, 11:27 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Roody
That's where they got it from.
There and the Rush Limbaugh show.
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