Michael Angelo 

I added water bottle mounts to a Raleigh, turned out real nice, I didn't lose any sleep over this either.

rootboy 

Thanks fellas. Saw that one. beautiful bike. And I was getting pretty excited. Until I read that the fork was not original. I'm kind of like that.

What I'm not like is too dogmatic though, PaintIt. As far as adding stuff to this frame, I personally wouldn't do it but I don't see all that much harm in it.
Now, if you were going to do it to a 60's Cinelli or something ....

YoKev

What kind of torch do you recommend for a job like this?

PaintItCeleste

This is fantastic looking! Yeah, just the kind of little additions that bring the bike up. So this kind of thing isn't crazy. This is what I was wondering. Thanks so much Michael Angelo

busdriver1959

Lowes and HD usually stock small oxy/MAPP torches. They cost about $60 and wiil work for brazeons. If you end up taking this to the next step and playing around with replacing tubes or framebuilding, this torch will be too small. For that you will need a real torch- oxy/acetelyne or oxy/propane.

Chombi

Used to not like clamped-on guides on bikes...but when I finally got to build up an old bike (1972) that did not have them, I learned to like the looks of the chromed clamp-on guides especially as the frame had chrome accents/lugs on it that it nicely picked up/related to.
In the end, it's all up to you you can configure and style your own bike any way you need or want to, but if you are trying to build something that will be "period correct" looking to most C&Ver's you might re-consider using the clamped-on stuff.
JMOs

Chombi

kaliayev

Chombi, do those chromed clamp on guides work very well? I am thinking of adding a second set of braze ons to my TX700 at the seat tube. The TX is going to be used some as a gravel grinder and fear the clamp ons will not hold up.

kc0yef 

Yes just do it with a capable builder

puchfinnland

Sweet build
now someone has answered the question of what to do with that little bit of bar tape that is always left over!!
a shoe protector

Chombi

Sure they do, that's why they were used for many years before brazed on guides became the standard.
Just a couple of tips though, as you might notice, some old bikes exhibit some scratching of the paint under cable clamps because of friction and sharp edges on them. Some people don't seem to mind this as those areas are almost permanently covered from view by the clamps anyway, as long as you do not move them around after you first install them, but some people do special preparation on the clamps to keep them from damaging the paint underneath.
I've seen clamps with clear cello tape carefully cut to follow the shape of the clamp (with sticky side to the clamp) used as padding/protection for the paint. I on the other hand prefer to just smooth out all the sharp and rough edges and surfaces under the clamp with my Dremel instead, using my fingers to feel the bottom surfaces of the clamps as I go to make sure I get rid of all the sharp and rough surfaces. I found out that as long as I tighten the clamps enough, it would not need the sharp edges to bite into the paint to stay in place. You have to just do it by feel to determine if you have enough tension on the clamps to keep them from moving.
Another tip, as the clamps are usually chromed steel, they will tend to rust if you expose them to moisture/rain enough. Try to dry them off right away with also a good blast of WD40 if they get wet to minimize this. If the rust does get a hold on the clamp, don't let it go too far before cleaning the rust off or replacing the clamps as the rust will start attacking the finish on your frame.
Sounds tedious, but that's just part of owning a bike with clamped on guides. And as for the rust concerns, I've seen enough brazed on guides on top tubes get really rusty to know that having brazed-on guides does not mean you can avoid the same problems entirely....and they are actually harder to fix if they do get rusty.

Chombi

puchfinnland

you guys are all too much.....

the answer is rivnuts!!

dont even need to repaint the bike,

just remember to use steel rivnuts on steel frames, and alu rivnuts on alu frames.

I did my cardinalli in the basement- turned out great, only need an 7mm drill and a stainless m5 long bolt and nut.
I use stainless as it is harder.
I put some sealent on the hole before riveting it in, then wipe off the excess.


https://forums.roadbikereview.com/com...ke-292334.html

PaintItCeleste

Chombi, the points you bring up above, are also reasons I am considering have the frame itself modified. As I have said, I am less interested in a period-correct restoration. I also really like the clean, simple concept of a frame with all those features "built-in". Less bits on the bike no risk of all the clamps biting into the paint/finish. Though as you mention, I have successfully protected the frames and decals from the various clamps with small cuts of an old rubber tube.

But it does appear it's not totally crazy to have these additions added on. Now it will be about budget. And as you say kc0yef, ensuring I find a capable builder!

busdriver1959

Many years ago, the guides and stops were part of the bike. According to Dave Moulton, it was Colnago that decided that brazons were bad. Their stated reason was that the heat weakened the frame. The real reason was that their build cost went way down without those pesky brazons. The first brazing I did was to add cable guides and canti bosses to an old Peugeot to turn it into a cross bike. The frame hasn't failed, the canti bosses haven't fallen off during braking, the world hasn't ended. It's just metal and fire. Like I said before, it ain't rocket surgery.

JohnDThompson 

Any fuel/oxygen setup (oxy/acetylene, oxy/propane, etc.) ought to be fine. A fuel/air torch might not be able to get the tube hot enough.

JohnDThompson 

Colnago's marketing department was renowned for turning cost-saving measures into technical advantages. The straight-blade fork is another example of Colnago marketing prowess.

Chombi

I always suspected that compact frames were more of a materials/cost saving measure too....never mind that they look so ugly compared to older bikes with level top tubes.....
Blame it all on the unicrown fork that started the trend to uglification of most bikes after the 80's......
JMOs, of course

Chombi

rootboy 

ah well , what might have been.
those pesky chrome cable clamps.
tsk....


Stausty's Moto GR

PaintItCeleste

Is this a guilt trip!? Am I supposed to be feeling bad about my decision right now?

busdriver1959

I did my first two frames with the cheap oxy/MAPP torch from Lowes. It will work but it is a PITA when heating the bottom bracket shell. The oxy canister WILL run out at the worst time. The flame temperature is very close to OA but the flame is small and hard to use without localized overheating. It will do the job for small jobs though.

Wulf

I did this to my wifes Mercian when I had it painted. I think the brazed bits were about $8 / item at that time done and painted in the Medici plant. Dark green Imron if anyone was interested.
Brake cable guides
down-tube shifter bosses
1 set of waterbottle bosses.

PaintItCeleste

I have an oxy/acetylene torch but the tanks were leased. I could go dig that out of the garage and pick up a couple small tanks from Lowe's. Though I don't want my first crack at it to be on this frame.

Six jours

When you're ordering the braze-ons, just order a tube to practice on. If you order through Nova Cycle Supply you can have them send out a bit of straight gauge for cheap, although they do have a minimum order - $50, I think. But even a "real" butted bicycle tube can be had for $20 or so.

Beyond that, the Oxy-MAPP torches from Bernz-O-Matic work perfectly for such projects. The plain old MAPP torches do get hot enough for silver brazing, but the flame is much too big for precise work.

auchencrow

Does the shoe fit?

busdriver1959

Another source for tubing is Aircraft Spruce. Nova's lowest shipping option is about $20 so you may as well order as much as possible from them. You'll be happier using your OA torch than the little ones from Lowes or HD. You can get pieces of steel in different shapes and thicknesses for practice from Lowes or HD, shouldn't cost much.

PaintItCeleste

I'll be building frames before I know it!



ooOOOoooo