SactoDoug

I am trying tubeless for this commuting season. I ride 23 miles a day to and from work and I am riding 5 days a week.


My set up:

Recumbent bicycle

Hutchinson Sector 28 tires 75 psi front, 85 psi rear

WTB Stryker 29'er wheels


My commute is 5 miles on a dedicated bike path and 6 1/2 on city streets mostly in bike lanes.


The Good

The ride is great. It is very comfortable and it feels more efficient. Granted, all of this could just be in my head but my cycling computer data does show that I am about .5 mph average and 30 seconds faster every day since switching to tubeless. Small punctures seal up right away and I don't even notice them until after I stop and see a little sealant stain on the tire.


The Bad

First, tubeless tires are twice the price of regular tires. I think a lot has to do with the smaller market. As they become more popular, hopefully the price comes down. I could literally buy two Gatorskins for the price of one of my tires right now.


Tubeless tires require more maintenance. The initial setup can be tricky for someone that has never taped a rim before and does not have an air compressor. Also, the sealant needs to be topped off every three months. Some people re-tape their rims every three months.


Large Punctures: I got a larger puncture three days ago. It looks like a nail went through. It was too large for the sealant to handle. I was not far from work so I walked the rest of the way in. I took my bike to a bike shop near by and asked them to fix the flat. The bike shop plugged the tire three times. Each time, the plug blew out. I suspect that these plug kits are meant for mountain bikes that run half the pressure that I am running on the road. I chanced the last one and got a flat within two blocks when I hit a small bump and the plug blew out.


Next I broke the bead and broke one of my tire levers. Tubeless tires are very difficult to get off the rim, especially with small tire levers that you typically have in a saddle bag. After fighting with it for about 10 minutes, I got one side of the tire bead off enough to put a patch on the underside of the puncture. Then I found that I could not inflate the tire with my mini-frame pump. Back to the bicycle shop I went. There I found out that even though the patch held, when I broke the bead, the tire levers screwed up the rim tape so it would not seal. I ended up getting a tube and riding home that way.


I looked on line for puncture resistant tubeless tires. There are no where near as many tubeless tire makers as there are clinchers. The Hutchinson Sector 28's that I have are just straight rubber tires. There is no Kevlar or other puncture resistant lining like on the tried and true Gatorskins. Also, since the tires are tubeless, you can't add a puncture proof liner like you can with regular clinchers. I did find Goodyear Eagle tires that have an "armor" layer. I am going to give them a shot. If they too fail, I will go back to Gatorskins.


Tentative Conclusion

For me, I am still evaluating tubeless tires. I am starting to think they are more of a race day tire than a commuting tire. I will have my mind made up after I have the better tires on and give them a try.

Darth Lefty 

^^^ That's a pretty fair analysis. Maybe only complaint is that you're comparing an unarmored racing tire to a hard armored commuter tire. It's not supposed to survive all attacks. A fairer comparison might be to a GP4000. Tubeless are definitely harder to mount and it's easy to see how a road tire has less air to lose before it's completely flat, and 2x pressure is 2x ejection load on the plug.

WTB has this tire in 700 x 37. It's not clear what armor it might have but it's really heavy if it doesn't.

Back when I first studied up on tubeless for MTB I found that most people who flatted and had to put in a tube had serious damage to the tire or even the rim... OR their sealant had dried out. I had a Vittoria Voyager Hyper, a light-armor 35-size tire, sliced back in the spring and tubeless would not have helped there at all. The bike I'm running tubeless is on 2.8", not 28mm!

DrIsotope

I've had to stick a tube in a tubeless tire 3 times. All three times, the tire needed to be booted just to make it to the shop/home, and the tire went in the trash immediately. The last two cuts were so big I could fit the tip of my finger in them.

In my experience, fixing a catastrophic flat on a tubeless tire is faster than a tubed one-- no tube to remove, just one to put in. And the residual sealant in the tire helps glue the boot in place.

chas58

You wrote a great summary, thanks!

I’ve had nails seal up fine with sealant, but I never take the nail out until I get home.

I wouldn’t recommend this, but one of my bikes has Gatorskins I’ve set up tubeless. You need good protection against blowoffs and burping to do this though.



For a lot of tires – road side repairs could be impossible. I have some schwalbe’s that I have a lot of difficulty mounting, but some more supple Maxis tires that are fairly easy to take off/on. Definitely try changing at home to see how easy/difficult it is.





You are talking mountain bike, and I'm talking 700c . Yes, mountain bikes have the UST standard. But what is the standard for 700c road or gravel tires/wheels? Tubeless ready doesn't not mean UST on 700c tires (i.e. not 29" mtb tires). It only means that the tire has a bead that will not stretch. But there are no real standards for wheel diameter, wheel/rim interface, rim bed. If I'm wrong, let me know what the non MTB standards are. Best I have seen is some manufacturers recommend specific rims they have tested with, but the won't tell you right or wrong with different rims.

Also, tubless compatible tires don't always have tougher sidewalls or layers of rubber to help the sealant do their job. Its just a tighter non stretch bead. you are right, Schwalbe for example does this. Those tires are heavier than their "tubed" tires, and mine hold air with no sealant. But I also have some ligher weight tires (Compass, Maxis) that don't have this. They will weep sealant, are lighter and more supple, but the casing is basically the same as a standard tire.

Darth Lefty 

chas58

Yeah, that article is part of where I got my info from. Its three years old, but not much has changed. I wouldn't say that everyone uses the huchinson standard.

That and hands on experience:

• My schwalbe's work well on DT swiss rims as mentioned in the article.
• They are too tight a bead to fit on Stan's wheels, as they have too large a diameter (and are totally different from the standard you mentioned)
• They are too loose on American Racing wheels (i think that was the brand) as many on BF have had blow off issues on those rims.

What has changed in the last 3 years is the prevalence of hookless rims on gravel wheels. I have a set of those, and for low pressure (below 70psi) they work great - but again that is a lot different from the anything mentioned in that article (my wheels use the rim bed, not the bead, to keep a good tubless seal).

So yeah, 700c wheels are all over the place. Stan's, Hutchinson, hookless, Mavic UST, DT swiss, American racing, etc. They are all different. It can be really hit or miss unless you buy the specific wheel the tire manufacturer has tested on.

RubeRad

Nice writeup, thanks!

Never heard of a recumbent 29er -- I thought recumbents usually had smaller wheels? (in particular smaller in the front?)

SactoDoug

There are a lot of very different bikes that fall under the recumbent umbrella. Recumbent is generic a term as a diamond frame bicycle is. Diamond frames can be mountain bikes, bmx, road bikes, beach cruisers etc.

My recumbent bike is what is commonly referred to as a high racer. Some high racers have a smaller front wheel and a full size rear wheel. Both of my wheels are full size. I did that to make logistics easier.

RubeRad

That's really cool. (That picture doesn't show well that the wheels are same size though). Did you make that frame yourself? Aluminum?

Darth Lefty 

SactoDoug

Yes, I built the frame myself. It is based on the Atomic Zombie High Roller. Those plans call for a steel frame but I decided to try 6061 Aluminum. There are pluses and minuses to building your own frame. The big minus is that it is being built by an amateur and there may be mistakes. The plus is that you can customize it any way that you want. Also, if anything goes wrong, you can repair it yourself. After my accident, the mounting brackets on my bottom bracket were bent and torn. I was able to cut them off and weld on new brackets.

SactoDoug

I don't think that tubeless tires like sitting around. My tires seal up best when I ride them daily. If they sit for a couple of days, they lose significantly more air than if I had rode them the same number of days.

RubeRad

Agreed, my two mtb with tubeless tires often sit for many weeks between rides, and I often find them flat, but usually a pump & spin and they're good to go.If not, add some more sealant.

Darth Lefty 

I think I've victimized myself with half-measures. The bike came with tubeless rims but the tires say nothing about it, and I taped only the spoke holes and not onto the bead seat.

jnb22019

I'm going tubeless on my commuter, just fully converted today after a week of testing the front wheel.

I posted a thread on the Bicycle Mechanic page, Tubeless conversion - looking great so far

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread to see how it goes for you.

SactoDoug

Do not tape the bead seat. It can prevent the tire from sealing.

Darth Lefty 

I meant the floor of the bead seat, not the sidewall. pretty much any figure you can find shows tape on the bottom of the bead seat. My tape is only covering the holes. So there's no gasket at all between the wheel and tire.

Darth Lefty 

Darth Lefty 

nbarbieri

I just bought a bike with WTB horizon's. Did you have to tape your rims or did they come pre-taped? Thinking about converting mine to tubeless as well.

JonathanGennick 

In my case, I switched wheels from 700c to 650b at the same time. I bought WTB KOM rims and taped them using WTB's rim tape. So everything -- tape, tires, and rims -- was from WTB.

nbarbieri

I just realized my Horizon's are wire bead. Might be somewhat of a PITA.

JonathanGennick 

Would that matter? What about your rims? Are they tubeless ready?

nbarbieri

I do not believe my rims are tubeless ready, but they could probably be taped up pretty easily. I have never run a tire tubeless with a wire bead, so I don't know. I would think it would be harder since the bead is somewhat less flexible. The descriptions for the horizon's I find online are all folding bead and mention that they can be run tubeless. Mine might just be an OEM specific product for Marin.

RubeRad

If you don't have tubeless-ready rims, you might want to try ghetto (aka split-tube) method.