Grasschopper

Eh the only question I really have or had was arty they better than BB7s and is it worth my money to upgrade them. From what I've read YES they are better than BB7s and yeah it's probably worth it to upgrade. I mean why hate the brakes when I don't have to? Other than $$$ is there any compelling reason to NOT switch from my current BB7s?

DrIsotope

I buy my M515 pads on Amazon in a box of 4 pairs for $20, and you can find even cheaper-- order straight from China and get 4 pairs for under $8. OEM Shimano pads are only about $10 a pair. Even at my LBS, organic pads are ~$15 a pair.

Dean V

Everyone comments on the superior modulation of disc brakes. Personally I have found them to also have a very nice smooth progressive feel to them.
But also rim brakes are very good too. They do not feel quite as smooth but I have no problem applying just as much braking force as I want and when I want it with a rim brake.
The only exception would be carbon rims in the wet but I haven't tried the latest rim/pad combinations so I don't know how good it is now.

Campag4life

Yes, just poking fun...and good one on Twain and of course everybody here agrees.

I sold a Look 555 a few years back and enjoyed it for about 30K miles. I suppose almost surprising how the popularity of Look has fallen off in America. We did see Look represented in the TdF this year tho with their most distinctive integrated head tube/steerer frame design which looks pretty trick but doesn't seem to enjoy the popularity many other big brand bikes have in the US at least. Just another PITA integrated frameset design bowing to fashion and perception of improved aerodynamics.

Campag4life

Agree. Another way of looking at it is...hydro disk brakes are for ham-fisted minivan drivers who need every technical advantage they can get to survive on a bicycle...ducks.
Us talented F1 guys...we wheelie to the line flashing our pearly whites to the crowd like Sagan...only a little slower.

RJM

yeah, everybody I know can and will be happy to re-lace a wheel using 20 dollar rims and the old spokes correctly and then bomb down a mountain descent with a smile because they are doing it on a 40 dollar wheelset.


You can buy disc brake pads cheap as any rim brake insert...you just got to look for them. I got them free several times.

WhyFi

Quoted for epicness.

Campag4life

Other than money, is there any reason not to live in a mansion in Monaco, drive a Ferrari and own a garage full of $10K bikes and have Jeeves make sure your tires are pumped up before your morning ride?

joejack951

I would say a resounding 'no.' Having used a BB7 on the road for many miles (those 25,000 miles on the Pedal Force to be exact), all it took was one ride with the HY/RDs to convince me of the tech. They aren't flawless (I'd like them to weigh less and be a little smaller) but the truth is that a hydro lever plus hydro caliper weighs about as much as a mechanical lever and a HY/RD caliper and the power of these calipers is something to experience. And you get the added benefits of not having that weight hanging off your handlebars and not needing to worry about hydro lines all over your bike.

All that said, the marriage of Campy and SRAM (or older Shimano) levers to HY/RD calipers is not seamless as TRP specifically targeted the latest Shimano SLR-EV long pull brake levers with their design. Luckily, some dude with too much time on his hands (me over the winter) created a custom arm that solves all the world's HY/RD-with-a-short-pull-lever issues

joejack951

Cool story, bro

Seattle Forrest

It would probably work fine, just it's a bit beyond my comfort zone.

It's the long descents on hot days I'm worried about, I don't think it would be an issue in day-to-day riding. Rear brake lets you slow (a bit) while the front brake cools.

Grasschopper

Looks to the left....well I've got >$10k worth of bikes...but no $10k bikes.

Ok so I'll be ordering these soon then. Thanks for your input...and what are you selling?

Campag4life

Anybody notice how nobody was riding disk brakes in the deluge rain storm at stage 1 of Tour of Colorado?

Seattle Forrest

This isn't relevant to the thread, but neither is almost anything else in the last 10 pages.

Big one on the right is Jack Mountain, the highest peak in the Pasayten Wilderness. You can make out Baker, Crater, Snowfield, Colonial and Pyramid, it's the best seat in the house.

Now, between the conflagrations in BC and the nearby Diamond Creek fire, you can stand in the same spot and not see the peaks.

This is the end of the highest road in the state, at about 7,500 feet. The other end of the road is down at 2,200. It's not a long road. It's cool at the top, and heats up as you go down. It was 105 F earlier out there. So

GeneO 

I reckon they forgot to look at the forecast? Or it is unpredictable mountain weather? Really means nothing.

Pretty wet though! And hail.

joejack951

A replacement pair of arms to correct the brake lever pull when pairing short pull brake levers like SRAM and Campy with HY/RD calipers that are designed for long pull levers (Shimano's latest offerings only). You may get lucky and/or not care that your brake levers are or nearly are bottoming out on your handlebars. If do care, you have two options:

This (what TRP suggested I do to make things work):
Or this (what I did and what TRP is now telling customers to do):

GeneO 

I have been thinking about getting a tattoo and been toying around with various ideas. This might be it

matt92037

I don't like DOT purely based on the fact that it is pretty corrosive stuff. It can destroy paint or other finishes if you happen to spill and not do a good job cleaning up. With mineral oil you can get it all over place and not really hurt anything. Could probably use it in a pinch as after shave if needed.

For me I am a bit clumsy and really, really like not having to worry about spilling when using mineral oil.

The only companies I am aware of that use mineral oil are Magura and Shimano while I have used Hope, Formulas and Avids that required DOT. Going back a long time I remember certain brakes required DOT3 and some DOT4.

I could not even begin to make a performance based comparison of the two fluids however.

All of this said, if you get SRAM discs which require DOT fluid, odds are you won't need to bleed, maintain or deal with the DOT very often at all. Should be a minimal issue.

Campag4life

What type of brakes pro teams use means nothing?
The forecast means nothing. Pro teams aren't going to change what kind of brakes they choose based upon up threat of rain. What is notable is that the best riders in the US including TdF wackjob Phinney...they are all on caliper brakes when they can ride whatever bikes they want and the big bike mfr's are pushing disks. Pros still desire caliper brakes and aside from good reefer and thin air, there are more than a few hills in CO.

Campag4life

Here is a good article that compares the merits of mineral oil versus DOT fluid:
DOT Brake Fluid vs. Mineral Oil - and the Winner is.. | Epic Bleed Solutions


I will dissent on your opinion which of course I respect and works for you. To me, Shimano's spec'ing 'their' mineral oil is simply based upon profit. They sell their pricey oil which is less refined than DOT fluid simply to make money for 'them'. Why not create a product that must be used as a companion to another product they sell? Mineral oil again in my opinion is inferior to DOT based brake fluid spec'ed in automobiles and motorcycles. This is based largely on boiling point and opportunity of cavitation which of course diminishes braking...a concern for example in the car and motorcycle industry when doing a lot of braking at the track or mountain passes....or a long descent on a bicycle on a hot day. Further, when water wicks in through microscopic voids in the sealing of braking systems, water is more homogeneous throughout the volume of DOT fluid versus separating out in mineral oil which further diminishes braking performance.

Grasschopper

This whole push is really interesting to me as it pertains to the higher end road bikes. Why are the manufacturers pushing this on us? I just bought my GF a Specialized Ruby Expert yesterday which has discs and through hubs which I've never used before (the hubs). There's no fast wheel change there as far as I can tell. And thus no way that EVER gets into racing. I get that it can be stiffer...but why is this all needed on road bikes?

I'm a bigger guy...currently over 250 lbs but back when I was in better shape still over 200 and I've never had an issue in any weather stopping my wheels from spinning with rim brakes. And what I mean by that is I've lost tire traction due to hard braking but never had an issue where my rim brakes wouldn't stop the rim from spinning (thus locking the tire). ALso I LOVE the modulation on my rim brakes.

It just feel like it's the MFGs pushing new technology so that they have something fresh to sell...much like electronic shifting felt to me 5-7 years ago.

BigPoser

Makes me miss Seattle!

Campag4life

Agree. Marketing with a twist. The twist is, unlike BB30 nobody wants or asks for, there may even be a fractional benefit but only in certain conditions. Watch stage 2 tonight of the Tour of Colorado. Hardly a disc brake bike in sight if you can find one at all. The pro's ain't signing up...and this is with their fancy team car's and buses with top bike brands in full view who fill bike shops with disk bikes pushing customers to upsell their products.


So why not?
1. 1 lb or so of weight that a rider could allocate to something else to stay at the 15 lb UCI limit that applies even less to you and me.
2. Probably a 3 watt deficit at 30mph...which doesn't matter much to you or me but these guys can hold 30 mph in their own air.
3. Wheel changes. They are more fiddly for wheel replacement...pad alignment, being dislodged etc which is less critical to the average rider like you and me, but a big deal for pro's in a hurry.


So further why not?
Most agree that disks are easier to modulate, but most pros grew up riding caliper brakes and they work just fine or certainly good enough as they do for many of us. I didn't hear of any pro's crashing in the Tour of Colorado racing wheel to wheel due to inadequate braking in that monsoon they rode through yesterday which almost stopped the race.

Masque

Always the same arguments. Always the same flaws.

Disc wheels are fast to change. There are faster solutions than through axles. But fine — if you don't want to ride on discs because the neutral service car won't have a wheel for you and you'll be stuck on one of those damned Mavic-branded yellow Canyons next time you have a flat on the tour, fine! Don't use discs.

Tom Boonen said disc brakes "work better, they're easier to control, they lock out less fast than normal brakes. Of course I can control normal brakes but with disc brakes you have so much more feeling. It's the biggest improvement I've seen in my career – I don't know what all the hassle is about."

He knows more than you.

Rim brakes are great. I love SwissStop BXP pads and in dry conditions I trust them as much as discs, but hydraulic discs let me apply the same force more easily and also work just as well in the rain, so I like them too.

The problem is that there's no wrong answer here and confirmation bias tends to make people argue against the thing that they don't use or prefer.

Both choices are good. Both choices have downsides. I think we will see disc brakes become more prevalent because they do work better in a wider set of conditions, and the tiny amount of extra weight is inconsequential for most people, even most professionals.

And the latest crop of disc-equipped road bikes is sensational. Just like the latest crop of rim brake bikes is sensational.

What a fun time to enjoy the sport.

Racing Dan

" It's the biggest improvement I've seen in my career"

Not that I have a cycling career :-), but thats my feeling as well. I cant think of a single improvement, for the past decade or two, that rivals moving from rim to disc brakes. I wonder if the nay sayers have even ever tried road disc brakes?