viscount

Have a 'new' Raleigh 3 speed Roadster, 28" wheels, dyno/lights and key lock.
So I assume it is top of range.
Bought off ebay
Hub date 06 (19)62.
But it doesn't add up, or figure in any Raleigh info I'm aware of.
Seller told me it was a Raleigh Majestic. No info about this name I can find.
Except later Indian made 'copies', which it isn't.
Could be Raleigh Royal maybe??




English model (not export/US model) but has a hockey stick chain-guard, not the expected full chain-case.
Serial no. 48789N and under AG.
24" frame.
Bit of a puzzle this one.
Appreciate any help from those who know the details.
It is a nice machine, my size and bought for a project to build a bike in the style of the current Pashley Guv'nor.
Old style 28" roadster.
Link here:
https://www.pashley.co.uk/products/guvnor.html

Rides and works nicely already.
Extra dyno is a distraction and not original.

graywolf

Wow, nice!

The rear wheel could easily have been changed at some point. Having both hub and bottle dynamos tends to indicate that. My understanding is that the white fender tip indicates it was 61-62 or later unless it was painted over at some point. The reason I say that is that the bicycle kind of looks like an earlier one to me. Are the rims stainless steel by any chance?

All those lovely model names seemed to be only used over there, they were all "Tourist" over here in the states. I had a link to some old Raleigh catalogs but it no longer works.

USAZorro

I'm wondering if the rear hub may have been replaced at some point. Looks kind of like a Dawn Tourist from the '57 catalog online.



Obviously minus the original chain guard.

oldroads

The seat tube leaf decal puts it in the 1950s. Maybe the hub reads '52'?
Look in our on-line archives for more info.
https://OldRoads.com

USAZorro

Is that a gazelle sticker on the front (up high) of the seat tube? If so, that would make the bicycle much older than '62.

viscount

Thanks for the feedback guys.
I can't be sure about the rear hub, which would normally date it. It definitely says 62 6.
I just have the feeling that it is not what it seems.
OK, that's pretty vague, but instinct tells me that it is not the normal 'run of the mill' Raleigh..

The leaf decal on the top of the seat-tube reads 'High tensile steel tubing' with the the Raleigh logo above.
I'm not familiar with that.
It has the bolted seat stays. Both ends.
And that suggests to me earlier than 1962.

Dawn Tourist? I think not. Looks similar but the chrome headlamp and lack of chain-case suggests otherwise. Admittedly the headlamp, with the switch on top, might also be a replacement, but it and the other chrome on it is so very good. Bars, cranks and gear linkages are very shiny and rust free.

Wheels are not stainless steel, but are in good condition with minimal rust.
New 28" tyres and tubes indicate it was looked after until recently.

USAZorro

There's this too - plus a bunch of years I can't find catalogs for.



Whoops - that's only green.

Maybe it's a DL-1 that someone added that little canister to the seat tube of.

nlerner

I agree that some features make the bike look older than '62, but it's the really small details that Raleigh changed over the years: S-A trigger style, pedals, color of rear reflector housing (older was black/white came in around 1960, I believe). I also see a plastic cable guide and stop versus steel. The hockey-stick chainguard also makes me think it's more modern--or, at least, likely from '62. It is odd to have both a bottle generator and a hub generator, but perhaps the latter isn't working. Any wires hooked to it?

Neal

viscount

Neal I think you are right in that the year is probably correct.
Wiring for the hub dyno is still mostly there and I'm not sure why the bottle dynamo was added.
I'll test the hub dyno later today, they are normally bullet proof unless carelessly dismantled.

It's the model that puzzles me.
The trigger is a GC3B and it also has a heavy duty 3/16" chain and chain-wheel.
It also has an oiler on the BB on the drive side, which I have not seen before.
The Miller headlamp and Lucas King of the Road bell are in fine condition.

Might be one of the so called Police Bikes.

bulgie 

The Model 1 from 1951 came with a "hockey stick" chainguard and a Dynohub with "accumulator" (battery tube on the seat tube). See here: https://sheldonbrown.com/retroraleigh...r-tourist.html

Since the bike in question has 28" wheels it can't be a Dawn or a Sport-Tourist or any other 26" wheel model. Narrows it down a bit.

Sixty Fiver

We were trying to date an old British military bike in an earlier thread and Dave Moulton offered the following information and observation... and he knows his stuff.


"It looks like a pretty standard British Roadster, the kind every working man would own to get to work each day. My father owned many bikes like this one over the years, none of them new. Probably from the 1930s, early 1940s. The reason I say that is, the seat stays were bolted on to allow the chain to be removed. By the 1950s removable chainlinks were used and the seatstays were fixed. The chainwheel is a common design that was used for many years. "

Perhaps this bike had the rear wheel replaced with a newer hub and generator and is actually older than the hub date would suggest.

bulgie 

You might want to see if the Raleigh serials article here helps:
https://www.jaysmarine.com/TH_raleigh_serials.html

That serial doesn't look quite like any described in that article though. Where on the frame is it? What exactly do you mean by "under AG"? Maybe post a photo of it?

viscount

I will take some more photos when it is light outside and post them here, but I can explain the serial number easily here and now.
Apologies for my lack of precision earlier!
The serial number is on the top of the seat-post where you would expect it.
The first line of it says 48789N and underneath that is stamped AG.

I've checked the available SNs on the net (but didn't know about the jaysmarine previously. For which thanks!!) and not found any that explain it sensibly.
Hence some of my BF questions
Thanks for the interest and response though.
It all helps in the long run.

viscount

Precisely! 28" wheels were not the norm, but for certain special, small quantity machines I believe.
Which is what makes this one interesting. At least to me!

nlerner

Well, with all respect due to Dave, I've had a few 1970s DL1s go through my hands, and they had bolt-on seatstays.

Neal

graywolf

OK, the fact they are not SS dates it later than the early 1950's.

One thing to check is to see if the hub dyno works. If it does than you can figure the wheel has been swapped out at some point. If it does not, the bottle dyno may simply have been a replacement for it. In that case the headlight is probably not original either.

I think you are on the right track with the hockey stick chain guard, if it has the correct braze-ons for it it is original. If it originally had a full chaincase it would have different brazed on mounts. Sometimes people changed them because they wanted what they thought was a more sporting look to their bicycle. However, I believe they sold models with the hockey stick even in England.

I am not sure when they changed from the bolt on seat stays, but that is another clue to its age.

The serial number does not exactly match those listed on SB's website, however I note that 5 digits + a letter were used in the 1955-1966 era. Nothing conclusive there.

graywolf

It is also a 26 inch wheel bike. The canister is a battery case for the lights, it provided power when the bike was stopped.

nlerner

I was thinking about that, too. Does the frame have the braze-on mount near the BB for a chaincase? I don't think I see it in the photos, and any 1940s-50s Raleigh Roadsters I've seen, whether they had the chaincase or not, had that mount. If it's not there, another clue that it is indeed a 1960s bike.

I actually have the 1962 UK Raleigh catalog, but it only lists the lightweights! I did find this collection of Raleigh catalogs, some of which are also on the RetroRaleighs site.

Neal

USAZorro

Page 17?

cudak888 

I'm leaning in the same direction. It is also in the '57 catalog. Police, Model 4/DL-4:



-Kurt

viscount

OK, update with some more particular pics.

GC3B trigger.






Showing lower seat stay bolt and wide, heavy duty 3/16th chain.



No braze ons for chaincase.
Seat stay clamp has original earth connection for dyno. Remnants of original wiring remain.
Bottle dyno is a Miller and front + rear lights match. So a later replacement as a set.
The hocky stick chain-guard has a clamp rather than a braze on. Normal I think.

BB oiler on drive side I have not seen before. Plastic/nylon though!

Looks to be right for 1962, but which model?
Thanks for the interest and info guys.
This is not your normal 'run of the mill' Raleigh

viscount

Kurt, you replied while I was writing the above.
And I reckon you are right!
24" frame too!
Looks like it.

USAZorro

Now you have to come up with a catchier model nickname for it.

viscount

How about 'Catch me if you can'?
Especially if I'm on my Holdsworth La Quelda.
No chance

USAZorro

I don't know. Going down a long, straight hill...