corrado33

I used to use shaving cream for my old baseball gloves. Coat them liberally, then rubber band a ball in the pocket. They're still kicking around today. Totally off topic of course. I don't know if shaving cream would be "harsh" enough for the thick leather of a saddle.

ironwood

I've been riding Brooks for more than forty years, mostly B-17s. I do have a B-17N on one bike and find it uncomfortable when I am upright, but becomes comfortable when I lower the handlebars. So maybe you can lower the bars a centimeter or Two. But a few mm change in saddle height can also be the difference between comfort and discomfort.

I would not wet a saddle. Nor would I put neatsfoot oil on a new saddle. I read that some Brooks or Ideale saddles were broken in by hand rubbing Proofhide or some other secret compound into the saddle leather. This was done for racers or special customers.

seedsbelize 

I didn't read every comment. The only time I wear padded shorts is when breaking in a Brooks saddle. Because it's painful otherwise. I like to tip the nose up almost imperceptibly, if it's on a road bikes. I would also suggest riding it more than you need to, if time is available. In my experience, the quicker it breaks in the better. I have never tried a B17 narrow, and the normal one is too wide for me. I have a team pro which is the cat's pajamas. And a C15. The C17 is also a hair too wide, but less so than the B17. I hope it works out for you.

Salamandrine 

That's funny because the only time I don't wear cycling shorts is when I'm breaking in a Brooks. Seems to shape itself better and faster that way. No padding to confuse things.

I find that the first couple rides make the most improvement. After that further break in happens, but increasingly slowly. I also kind of think if it's not reasonably comfortable from the first ride, it's not the right saddle for the OP. Unless of course the adjustment is way off with extreme tilt or something.

howellhandmade

Have you tried commuting on a bike with road-ish position? Perhaps the more upright position with flat bar is to blame. Everything I ride has a road bar; I'm not that sensitive to saddles but if I don't have the forward lean to distribute weight (take some off my tuchus) it's no good. And perhaps some antiseptic salve before/after the commute?

corrado33

The bike IS a road ish position. It's a cross check, and the bars are probably 2 inches below the top of the saddle. I'm more upright when I ride a touring road bike on the hoods.

Big Block

I think there is a serious gap on the Brooks site regarding the lack of information on correct saddle selection.
Rivet have a guide for measuring sit bone widths and then choosing a saddle for your intended riding position.
Which Saddle is best for me? is highly recommended reading.

When the saddle is initially moulded (which Rudi and I both do), it is done by soaking the rock hard flat leather piece in water so the vegetable tanned leather becomes malleable. Then it is formed into the desired shape by appling pressure and allowed to fully dry.
Wet leather AND then riding it for a long period when it is wet will cause the leather to stretch. That should be avoided. It is the same process that is used to shape the leather, but it is uncontrolled!
However with normal riding the leather will form to your body shape (ie sit bones) by the bodies normal perspiration/humidity and the pressure points localising the stretching of the leather. When the leather has stretched at the localised level and equalised the pressure, it is then formed to your body shape, something a hard plastic saddle can't ever do.
Rudi has very well detailed how this 'breaking-in' can be accelerated in a controlled manner but without the excessive use of chemicals which will very much shorten the life of the saddle.

If your saddle is within the recommended range for your sit bones and riding style, the damp towel, letting the damp leather 'rest' then a short ride, then let it fully dry to your moulded shape is sound. It uses the properties of the vegetable tanned leather to your advantage.

howellhandmade

Excuse me. You said "The bike I'm riding it on has a very small saddle to bar drop (and it's a flat bar commuter)."

You did NOT say you had a 2 inch drop or that it was a road-ish position, or a Surly Cross Check. Good luck, I'll show myself out.

seedsbelize 

I will also say that I tried, in order of appearance, the Colt, C17, B17, before I hit on the C15 and Team Pro. It wasn't an exact science.

Fahrenheit531 

You're not alone if your butt doesn't like Brooks. I tried really hard to make 'em work. Went so far as to get a brand-new Cambium, because the story is they're like a broken-in Brooks right out of the box. No dice. Hated every moment on that saddle. Accept it; move on. Upside: Resale value on Brooks is very good.

I found that buying a variety of beat-to-hell saddles on CL or eBay is a very effective way to find out what's a good fit with minimal expense.

corrado33

Thanks for the info. I did actually do some research on which Brooks to buy, and the B17 was marketed as "a good saddle for bikes with the handlebars right at or right below the level of the saddle." I said "Hey! That's me!" Then, I decided on the narrow version because I know I have very narrow sitbones, and I find it very difficult to ride wide saddles. (And I've ridden normal B17s and hadn't liked them because they're so wide.) The B17N is one of brooks narrowest saddles from what I've seen. The swift and swallow were marketed as "racing" saddles, so I assumed "less comfortable" than a non racing saddle. (Not to mention they're almost double the price of the B17.)

noglider 

Width of sit bones may not predict the width of saddle that is best for you. I don't think I have wide sit bones, though I haven't measured. I'm comfortable on lots of women's saddles. Go figure. So you MAY want to try the standard width B17. Then again, if you have a saddle that works for you, maybe it's just best to stick with that.

Also, are you using the term "saddle sores" correctly? There is soreness in muscles (which can feel like it's in the bones) from the saddle, but that's not the same as a skin condition called saddle sore.

Salamandrine 

This whole sit bones thing is new and to me doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't want to be sitting on my sit bones, at least not entirely. I recently tried a modern saddle and it seemed to be forcing me to sit on the sit bones. I found it painful. Old saddles were kind of straddled, and the pressure was spread over the entire contact area of the saddle.

At any rate I have narrow sit bones too, yet I can be completely comfortable on a B17. That parameter alone isn't necessarily a great predictor. I find that other stuff matters at least as much, for example: top flat or S shape? Width in the middle perineum area? V shape or T shape? Transverse flatness/roundness across the top? Flexibility?

clubman 

Pics of your arse might help. But maybe not...

I've always had a hard time finding a Brooks that doesn't fit and I hate them soft and broken in. So there's the whole gammut of personal preferences. Try something like a Selle San Marco Regal, something different.

Big Block

so did you read that article?
this bit?
"Scientists have measured sit bone spacing for large populations. On average, men’s sit bone width ranges between 100mm – 140mm (give or take a few mm to round), and women’s range between 110mm – 150mm. Graphing these two averages shows an overlap of 30mm between men and women’s average sit bone spacing. This dispels the myth that saddles are gender specific, and the marketing hype that women must ride a wider saddle."

Big Block

did you read the article?
this bit?
"Once you have the measurement, add 2cm (or 20mm). Saddle width is approximate to sit bone spacing + 2cm. With leather saddles like a Rivet, you definitely want to add that 2cm, because you do not want to be sitting on the metal frame of the saddle. You want to be seated between the edges of the frame.

What if the saddle’s more than 2cm wider than sit bone spacing? You may experience rubbing/chafing on the inner thighs, and or extra pressure on your hamstrings. You may find yourself moving up onto the nose of the saddle, which will put more pressure on your soft tissue. Overall, too narrow is typically worse than too wide because the saddle will naturally migrate up into the pubic area filled with soft tissue and nerve endings."

JohnDThompson 

Gloves are treated to soften them, but saddles need to be firm enough to support your weight. Softening a saddle is likely to shorten its life and encourage sag and tearing at the rivets.

randallr

Actually, it's is NOT too late to put neatsfoot oil on if you already put on Proofhide. I did a combo treatment with a B17, first with multiple hot soakings of Obenauf's, then a final pass with Neatsfoot oil and that saddle is quite supple and comfy for me.

One other thing - if you want, I can ship you a 45 year old B17N that I gave up on because it's too narrow and soft.

commandcomm

Try a Brooks Flyer, the one with springs. It would be great for commuting. No butt pain with the narrow and a little cushion with the springs.

obrentharris 

Sometimes we miss the most obvious thing: You have perhaps already thought of this. The Brooks saddles tend to be quite a bit taller than padded saddles. If you switched saddles without lowering the seat post to compensate for the additional height of the saddle you would likely experience symptoms very similar to what you describe.
Brent

Don Buska

If you want leather you might consider giving Sella Anatomica a try. I use the X series exclusively on my five riders (X1 in Vintage leather). American made if you care.

https://selleanatomica.com/collections/x-series

I've never had any butt issues, even after a couple of century rides. BTW, I don't wear padded shorts and my butt is 59 years old now

Bad Lag

What kind of bike are you riding, or maybe more importantly , what kind of bars do you have?


What piqued my interest was the upward tilt of the nose. That is usually for sprung saddles. Lower it back down until it's level (horizontal).

Lascauxcaveman 

That doesn't work for me. My just-barely-broken-flyer feels exactly like my my just-barely-broken-in B17 regardless of springs. It's just plain a little too wide and not a good fit, over the long haul. Sounds like the OP isn't riding upright, anyway.

Salamandrine 

Yeah, I've read that article and others like it. I still do not think that sit bone width should be the sole parameter considered in saddle fitting. IMO and IME a properly fitted racing saddle does not place all of your weight on the sit bones. It's more of a concern for upright recreational riders.

My feeling is that the currently fashionable LBS butt meters and techno babble exist mostly so manufacturers can sound like they know what they are talking about.

Kevindale

+1. I've noticed just an update of a racing saddle model, though still the same width and overall shape (and the exact same name), can move that saddle from comfortable to intolerable, or vice versa. Which is maddening, since most popular models of racing saddles have many variations, and the variations change from year to year.

I think that's one of the appeals of Brooks - consistency through the years.