High-end Chromoly Frame Makers of the 90s
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I don't think anyone is offended here. Some may be puzzled as to what you want from the thread. You asked for some very specific help, the name of a frame maker from the 90s. A few names were given but there were undoubtedly dozens working at the time. You mentioned having fun. Are you offering a prize if someone randomly guesses the name?
#27
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I don't think anyone is offended here. Some may be puzzled as to what you want from the thread. You asked for some very specific help, the name of a frame maker from the 90s. A few names were given but there were undoubtedly dozens working at the time. You mentioned having fun. Are you offering a prize if someone randomly guesses the name?
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I had a MAZA (not Masi) frame that I outfitted with Campy Athena friction shifters. The frame was Italian and TSX. And, I remember Miele from Canada.
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#31
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Campy
I've always used Shimano components but some of that Campy stuff, back in the day, was pretty cool. The C-Record Delta brake set, for example, was a work of art.
#32
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Ritchey
Thank you for adding some names to the thread, Bruce. I definitely recall the ads for the Ritchey frames back in the day. As I recall, they were paying quite a bit of attention to certain details and were, consequently, a very innovative frame maker.
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Adding Tesch, Sachs, Davidson and Columbine to the list.
OP - was yours a typical road bike (Stage racing geometry, like most of the Italian bikes), or touring, sport-touring?
clues: did the fork and or rear dropouts have little eyelets for fenders/racks, or were they without? That alone will help de-mystify the geometry
OP - was yours a typical road bike (Stage racing geometry, like most of the Italian bikes), or touring, sport-touring?
clues: did the fork and or rear dropouts have little eyelets for fenders/racks, or were they without? That alone will help de-mystify the geometry
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Here's a thread about steel tubing, you could revive it and add your thoughts. What's your favorite steel frame tubing AND WHY?
#35
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Adding Tesch, Sachs, Davidson and Columbine to the list.
OP - was yours a typical road bike (Stage racing geometry, like most of the Italian bikes), or touring, sport-touring?
clues: did the fork and or rear dropouts have little eyelets for fenders/racks, or were they without? That alone will help de-mystify the geometry
OP - was yours a typical road bike (Stage racing geometry, like most of the Italian bikes), or touring, sport-touring?
clues: did the fork and or rear dropouts have little eyelets for fenders/racks, or were they without? That alone will help de-mystify the geometry
By the way, a fellow I served with and, later, trained with was killed on a beautiful 90s-era Colnago Super, in the late-90s, by some guy who veered off of a long stretch of straight highway on a sunny Florida day. As I had been invited to go on that half-century training ride with my two other cyclist/coworkers that day, I still recall being upset that I missed that ride. It was quite a thing getting a call from the third rider in our group asking me to accompany him while he delivered the poor guy's car and bike to his family. That was a day that I'll never forget and, quite honestly, I think that's one of the reasons that I'd like to have a bike that reminds me of the training rides the three of us took together,
Last edited by LaVieClaire86; 01-15-21 at 04:25 PM.
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Serotta was never in Colorado. The company was founded in Saratoga Springs NY and had a few different factories in the Saratoga Area, Greenfield, Middle Grove, South Glens Falls and Saratoga Springs....
The company did create the Colorado Concept tube set.
The company did create the Colorado Concept tube set.
#37
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Serotta
As for the "Colorado" reference, I'm beginning to think that -- many years later -- I'm confusing the tube set with the frame maker's origins...which would further suggest that the bike in question may have been a Serotta?
By the way, if anyone has any photos of a green/white Serotta, I'd love to see them. Have a good one ~ LVC86
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That being said, if you want a dream road bike with a comfortable ride, today, you’d be much better served by a CF frame with endurance geometry, and spacing to put on some wider tires.
A modern endurance CF frame with 28 mm tires, inflated properly, is going to be both faster, and and a more comfortable ride, than the best 1990’s steel frame with 23 mm tires.
Time marches on.
A modern endurance CF frame with 28 mm tires, inflated properly, is going to be both faster, and and a more comfortable ride, than the best 1990’s steel frame with 23 mm tires.
Time marches on.
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Then there's Richard Sachs but now we're talking very exclusive.
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#42
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Sachs
Well, I did some research on the Richard Sachs brand and, unfortunately, that's not the brand I rode in the 90s.
Nevertheless, the way that he sells his frame components and the tubing itself looks very interesting. After reading about him, it was perfectly clear that he loves working with steel and his philosophy on trying to create for those who haven't married themselves to Madison Ave brainwashing (aka, marketing) is right up my alley. If I don't have any luck finding the frame I rode, I think that Richard Sachs might just be worth looking into further. Thank you for the name, Bruce.
Nevertheless, the way that he sells his frame components and the tubing itself looks very interesting. After reading about him, it was perfectly clear that he loves working with steel and his philosophy on trying to create for those who haven't married themselves to Madison Ave brainwashing (aka, marketing) is right up my alley. If I don't have any luck finding the frame I rode, I think that Richard Sachs might just be worth looking into further. Thank you for the name, Bruce.
#43
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Well, I did some research on the Richard Sachs brand and, unfortunately, that's not the brand I rode in the 90s.
Nevertheless, the way that he sells his frame components and the tubing itself looks very interesting. After reading about him, it was perfectly clear that he loves working with steel and his philosophy on trying to create for those who haven't married themselves to Madison Ave brainwashing (aka, marketing) is right up my alley. If I don't have any luck finding the frame I rode, I think that Richard Sachs might just be worth looking into further. Thank you for the name, Bruce.
Nevertheless, the way that he sells his frame components and the tubing itself looks very interesting. After reading about him, it was perfectly clear that he loves working with steel and his philosophy on trying to create for those who haven't married themselves to Madison Ave brainwashing (aka, marketing) is right up my alley. If I don't have any luck finding the frame I rode, I think that Richard Sachs might just be worth looking into further. Thank you for the name, Bruce.
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A few other U.S. builders that pop into mind (although it's possible that not all were still building in the '90s): Stowe, Rodney Moseman, Seven (if they did steel; can't remember), Romic, Bill Boston (staggeringly underappreciated on Bike Forums and elsewhere; look him up), Bruce Gordon, Franklin Frames, J. P. Weigle, John Holland, Bill Holland.
#45
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The first of them however does tend to the wobblies at high speed, getting worse as I am aging. I know a real part of that is what I told the builder to do. (It does however serve very well for very hard rides, very long rides, disappears on climbs, steers exactly like I want and rides and corners no-hands easily. And has all the quirky touches I want on MY bikes.
Add some weight on the front using a handlebar bag or a basket, and check if it's still doing it.
Maybe post a picture of it?
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Yeah, I've written to them and, apparently, they've gone through some changes that limit their records. In short, all they could tell me was that they don't [presently] do business with the large bike shop I tested the "mystery bike" out of.
As for the "Colorado" reference, I'm beginning to think that -- many years later -- I'm confusing the tube set with the frame maker's origins...which would further suggest that the bike in question may have been a Serotta?
By the way, if anyone has any photos of a green/white Serotta, I'd love to see them. Have a good one ~ LVC86
As for the "Colorado" reference, I'm beginning to think that -- many years later -- I'm confusing the tube set with the frame maker's origins...which would further suggest that the bike in question may have been a Serotta?
By the way, if anyone has any photos of a green/white Serotta, I'd love to see them. Have a good one ~ LVC86
Serotta Catalogs
And don't listen to all the silly nonsense about how superior today's C.F. bikes are. I've test ridden Trek Domane's twice now to feel that magical ride. I have at least a dozen old steel bikes in my stable that ride better on the rough roads than it easily.
That said, so much goes into ride quality beyond a brand or what it is made of. My two Serotta's are a prime example.
The CSI is a magical ride, super fast and very comfortable on chip seal.
The Nova Special is a whole 'nuther beast, I tad harsh, twitchy, but crazy fast also.
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Steel is real...and comfy.
Steel is real...and comfy.
Last edited by jamesdak; 01-18-21 at 08:10 AM.
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#48
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^^^^ The mind goes downhill as well....
#49
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You may be referring to the shifters as friction because they were downtube shifters as opposed to grifters, but they were indexed, just poorly so.
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You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#50
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All the Serotta catalogs are here.
Serotta Catalogs
And don't listen to all the silly nonsense about how superior today's C.F. bikes are. I've test ridden Trek Domane's twice now to feel that magical ride. I have at least a dozen old steel bikes in my stable that ride better on the rough roads than it easily.
Serotta Catalogs
And don't listen to all the silly nonsense about how superior today's C.F. bikes are. I've test ridden Trek Domane's twice now to feel that magical ride. I have at least a dozen old steel bikes in my stable that ride better on the rough roads than it easily.
The smooth ride on rough roads from your steel bikes is the result of the fact that they are flexy. That “live” steel is real feeling is also because they are flexy.
Conversely, you can make CF as stiff as you want it. More importantly, you make it stiff where you want, and compliant where you want, and also manage the direction in which it is compliant.
Ive had a number of high end steel bikes, including a Paramount OS which is pretty similar to a Serotta Colorado in the use of oversized shaped tubes. All of those bikes were dramatically more flexy than my Willier Zero 7. I haven’t ridden a steel bike that I couldn’t make ghost shift by torquing the bb and chainstays.
Also, the front end on the Willier is dramatically stiffer laterally than the front end on any steel bike I’ve had, which inspires more precise and confident handling at speed. And yet the Willier is more comfortable, not to mention 7 pounds lighter, because compliance is built in the places and direction you want, such as vertically in the seat stays.
Its simple to confirm what I’m saying, just by pushing on the bike. Press your steel bike into the ground, and push on the bb with your foot . The lateral flex will be inches further than putting the same pressure on any good modern CF frame. Same thing with the amount of flex if you press laterally on the front end.
Time does March on, and if Modern CF frames weren’t better, then they wouldn’t outsell steel by a factor of 1000 or so.
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You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.