A lot of the recent "innovation" is a bad bargain for anyone not pushing a competitiv
#526
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Is a consumer better off riding a 1978 steel road bike that's maintainable with simple tools I bought 40 years ago? Is much of the recent "innovation" is a bad bargain for anyone not pushing a competitive racing edge. Eg, Is carbon anything as an anti-feature. ?
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What “specialist” tools were required and what is a star wrench?
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Torx and allen wenches are not so special
Thin 15 mm cone wrenches, 32 mm headset wrenches to work on an old bike>>>>>those are special.
Thin 15 mm cone wrenches, 32 mm headset wrenches to work on an old bike>>>>>those are special.
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I used my Park chain tool on a Campy 12 speed chain.
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2. Torx has been a standard for a long time.
3. Torx wrenches do have advantages over Allen wrenches.
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For reasons of tool wear, ergonomics, serviceability, production costs, & avoided re-work complications, the engineering department at my former employer (aerospace manufacturing) made it a policy to substitute all cross-tip fasteners ("Philips") with Torx on all designs going forward. The use of hex style fasteners was strongly discouraged throughout the production system.
So, Torx do indeed provide tangible, real world benefit.
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#535
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Torx have many more & more robust contact points than hex wrenches. They will not round out in the way a worn hex would & should the wrong size Torx wrench be used the fastener is not destroyed in the way a hex fastener would be. The bulk of the load bearing surfaces remain for the proper sized tool to act upon.
For reasons of tool wear, ergonomics, serviceability, production costs, & avoided re-work complications, the engineering department at my former employer (aerospace manufacturing) made it a policy to substitute all cross-tip fasteners ("Philips") with Torx on all designs going forward. The use of hex style fasteners was strongly discouraged throughout the production system.
So, Torx do indeed provide tangible, real world benefit.
For reasons of tool wear, ergonomics, serviceability, production costs, & avoided re-work complications, the engineering department at my former employer (aerospace manufacturing) made it a policy to substitute all cross-tip fasteners ("Philips") with Torx on all designs going forward. The use of hex style fasteners was strongly discouraged throughout the production system.
So, Torx do indeed provide tangible, real world benefit.
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As much as it irritates me to need yet another wrench, Torx does make a lot of sense.
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Perhaps the springs in the Futureshock really does make folks faster but, look at this guy, from the Futureshock (!) explanation page.
His chest is a drag parachute as indeed were many of the racers in the recent British National Championships other than Cavendish who uses a mini bike sizes to small for him, I think.
Now that I have a set of L-shaped (Allen-key-like) Torx wrenches I don't hate them any more.
And I have stripped hex cleat bolts so I can see their disadvantages.
Last edited by timtak; 06-29-22 at 05:07 AM.
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I just commented on the subject of current bicycle technology somewhere else, and thought of some points that are relevant here too.
25 years ago when I could run a standard lugged-steel bike up into the 23mph bracket for some miles, I asked a local bicycle dealer who raced and sold fancy time-trial equipment how much time all that fancy aero bicycle and helmet and other equipment was worth in a time-trial of a dozen miles or so, and they said "two or three minutes". So even if I dropped the thousands of dollars on high-end equipment it would cost for those two or three minutes, I would still be four or more minutes shy of ever winning a bicycle time-trial race, or any other bicycle race for that matter. So it did not seem to make any sense to spend thousands of dollars to go from being a slow or average bicycle racer, to being a little bit faster slow or average bicycle racer.
If I were close enough for it to make a difference in winning, if on equipment like Eddie Merckx used to set his hour record a half-century ago I could go around 27mph in a TT, then I might win some local races after dropping the thousands on equipment, but as it is someone who can only muster 23 or 24mph on a bike with round steel tubing, would never be able to buy the six or seven mph needed to win anything. I don't mind finishing in the middle of the results of a time-trial today any more than I minded not winning by finishing in the top ten-percent 25 years ago, so it still a few decades later does not seem to make any sense to let participants in an athletic sport buy speed, to let their speed in the event depend on how much money they have instead of how much athletic ability they have, and it certainly does not make sense to feel good about buying speed, especially when it is not competitive anyway. If you are a competitive bicycle racer, you do not have to buy it, a sponsor or team you belong to will.
All super-light materials and patented and copyrighted "aero" technology do is make cycling expensive and it destroys perfectly good older equipment by putting it in danger of no longer being supported in the way of spare parts by manufacturers who have to jump on the lightweight aero bandwagon that exists for no good reason at all.
This is why I get such a kick out of passing up people on the road and in TT races who have spent thousands on their crappy light aero bikes and helmets while riding my old junky ten-speed bicycles. Not because it makes me think I am any better a cyclist or human being, but it has the potential to wake some mindless consumer of the latest bicycle "technology" up to the fact that they are literally being Taken for a Ride.......
25 years ago when I could run a standard lugged-steel bike up into the 23mph bracket for some miles, I asked a local bicycle dealer who raced and sold fancy time-trial equipment how much time all that fancy aero bicycle and helmet and other equipment was worth in a time-trial of a dozen miles or so, and they said "two or three minutes". So even if I dropped the thousands of dollars on high-end equipment it would cost for those two or three minutes, I would still be four or more minutes shy of ever winning a bicycle time-trial race, or any other bicycle race for that matter. So it did not seem to make any sense to spend thousands of dollars to go from being a slow or average bicycle racer, to being a little bit faster slow or average bicycle racer.
If I were close enough for it to make a difference in winning, if on equipment like Eddie Merckx used to set his hour record a half-century ago I could go around 27mph in a TT, then I might win some local races after dropping the thousands on equipment, but as it is someone who can only muster 23 or 24mph on a bike with round steel tubing, would never be able to buy the six or seven mph needed to win anything. I don't mind finishing in the middle of the results of a time-trial today any more than I minded not winning by finishing in the top ten-percent 25 years ago, so it still a few decades later does not seem to make any sense to let participants in an athletic sport buy speed, to let their speed in the event depend on how much money they have instead of how much athletic ability they have, and it certainly does not make sense to feel good about buying speed, especially when it is not competitive anyway. If you are a competitive bicycle racer, you do not have to buy it, a sponsor or team you belong to will.
All super-light materials and patented and copyrighted "aero" technology do is make cycling expensive and it destroys perfectly good older equipment by putting it in danger of no longer being supported in the way of spare parts by manufacturers who have to jump on the lightweight aero bandwagon that exists for no good reason at all.
This is why I get such a kick out of passing up people on the road and in TT races who have spent thousands on their crappy light aero bikes and helmets while riding my old junky ten-speed bicycles. Not because it makes me think I am any better a cyclist or human being, but it has the potential to wake some mindless consumer of the latest bicycle "technology" up to the fact that they are literally being Taken for a Ride.......
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This is why I get such a kick out of passing up people on the road and in TT races who have spent thousands on their crappy light aero bikes and helmets while riding my old junky ten-speed bicycles. Not because it makes me think I am any better a cyclist or human being, but it has the potential to wake some mindless consumer of the latest bicycle "technology" up to the fact that they are literally being Taken for a Ride.......
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Just judging by looking at your bikes, and the way they seem to be maintained (or more likely not), and also by how often you tell us how fast you are, I'm just gong to outright say it: I don't believe a word you write.
Last edited by smd4; 06-29-22 at 06:31 AM.
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CAT 6 racers.
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I had the funniest race that never was experience along these lines a couple months ago. I was riding on a state highway with a very long straight flat section so I could see very far ahead. I was about 93 miles into a century. For about 2 miles, I could see a lone cyclist who was initially quite some distance ahead of me at first, but I steadily gained on him and then passed him. I had to go on the wrong side of a rumble strip on a 55 mph road to do it so I made sure our speed differential was high before I went into the pass. I announced it and pulled the pass off very quickly (had to time it for the gaps in the rumble strip--I know this road like the back of my hand), at which time he uttered some sort of protest that I couldn't quite make out, except for the word "but". I'm riding at the same 20+ mph pace ahead of him for the next mile or so, then out of nowhere, he's suddenly zipping past me on the wrong side of the rumble strip. All fine except for the fact that we were about 25 feet from a red light when he passed and when we reached it, he actually turned off into a parking lot and hopped off of the bike panting like an overheated sheepdog, but giving me his version of a triumphant glare. I think I managed to stifle my laughter until I was actually past him. Didn't want to spoil his imaginary glory.
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Was he riding an ancient Huffy with electrical tape for cable guides??
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He looked to be about 25-30 years younger than that guy, and was very, very kitted with a new-looking road bike (I didn't actually check out the bike). I think my white hair might've triggered the "how dare you pass" reaction.
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Oh! You rode a 12 speed Motobecane and not your favorite 10 speed Huffy? Interesting.
Last edited by smd4; 06-30-22 at 08:06 PM.