Symtex

I wouldn't go on the gravel or dirt road with it. It's a road bike. I stick to bike path and paved road with it. While my cyclocross bike has no limit to where I can go. I've done 40km of dirt/gravel road without any trouble. That's why many says that cyclocross bike are the best bike you'll ever need.

Retro Grouch 

Could you explain to me how research is different from trial and error?

humpbog

I only lose time by researching. Trial and error through spending and buying used.

birru

I also support this plan. I went into my LBS a couple of years ago and basically said something to the effect of, "I don't know what kind of rider I am yet; gimme a bike-ass bike for about $500." Wound up with a Raleigh Cadent 2 which has served me well for a couple of years. Just this month added a new, carefully considered Jamis Renegade Expert to the stable and it suits my needs perfectly. The Cadent is now a happy "beater"/working dog for days when I need to lock it up outside for a few hours. It also gives me something to ride if the Renegade is ever in the shop or waiting for parts. Had I dropped Renegade money from the outset I would have wound up with something very different and less suitable due to my cluelessness and lack of recent cycling experience.

humpbog

If I were to replace bikes with cars here and use the same analogy, would I buy a cheap car, low tech car, to see if I like driving and where? If I could afford a nicer vehicle, is it possible I may immediately like driving more due to the experience? If I have a bad experience on a cheap and/or used bike, what exactly am I solving?

reppans

Well this is admittedly a long shot, but have you considered a good folder?

My thoughts are quite similar to the above and spontaneous cycling is by far the most fun for me. By the sounds of your developing bike paths, I'm guessing you're in a relatively urban/suburban area with decent public transport options. THESE are my main rides, and IMHO only one really fits the description well... the one I would keep if I could have only one bike.

The problem with nice/pricey bikes, is that you don't want to leave them locked outside or on a car rack subject to theft and bad weather, and full-sized bikes are too bulky to bring/put inside most places/things. For me, this creates tethers between me and the bike...and me and home/car. That translates to relatively planned rides for my mountain and CX bikes.

The Brompton is a different animal. Although you may lose ~10-20% in terms of speed/efficiency, you gain multi-fold in terms of bicycling versatility. As one example (too many to list), if my comfortable half-day ride is ~30 miles on my CX bike, then my tether is ~15 miles since as I need to double back. On the Brompton, that tether can extend to ~27 miles with the option of hopping on any bus or train for the ride back. Even hitchhiking becomes a new option for me - I can comfortably sit in most car seats with the bike right on my lap, and the utter amazement/attention this thing seems to elicit from most folks may well bring rides almost as well as a pretty girl in a mini-skirt .

humpbog

Nice fleet!

Yes, that is definitely a problem but this first bike (maybe only) will be almost exclusive recreational riding. I will not be using a bike, or at least this first bike for urban commuting. I'm not too concerned about theft because the bike will be out of my sight for a maximum of minutes and my Thule bike rack has basic enough protection to give me this time.

The Brompton is cool; If i lived directly in the busy city I would be looking at one of these for sure! I'm going to try to avoid city riding as the drivers here are insane and sometimes unwilling to share the road. Did you get the pretty girl?

humpbog

My main motivation is that Canada is Opening 22,000 km Car-Free Bike Path Across The Country In 2017.

From the article (can't post link for some reason):

"Canada has its very own “car-free highway” currently being built and so far it’s 20,770 km long!

That’s about 12,905 miles long or 208 times longer than the German trail.

In fact, it’s the world’s single longest network of recreational trails.

Construction began in 1992 and is scheduled to be completed by 2017, just in time for Canada’s 150th anniversary.

So far over 87% of the trail is complete, and it already connects most of the major cities in Canada."


Path pics:

https://cdn.mtlblog.com/uploads/2016/...aves_small.jpg
https://cdn.mtlblog.com/uploads/2016/...74-768x300.jpg
https://cdn.mtlblog.com/uploads/2016/...-1-768x310.jpg
https://cdn.mtlblog.com/uploads/2016/...74-768x300.jpg
https://cdn.mtlblog.com/uploads/2016/...74-768x300.jpg

So the question is, will the Defy Advanced be the right tool for the job or would something like the Diverge be more suitable?

birru

I see your point, but most people don't have 10+ year gaps where they stop driving entirely (which is what happened to me with cycling, and perhaps with you), so folks usually have a better handle on their needs and wants when it comes to cars. If I could comfortably afford my attainable dream car I'd just go out and buy it.

Anyway, if you're going the "buy once, cry once" route, then I'd just say to test ride as much as possible, and let the LBS know you're serious about dropping coin on what you want. Also, I DO love my Renegade Expert.

EDIT: Now that I've seen those photos, I do think you'd want the option of running wider tires, at least enough clearance for 33mm with some tread. That may rule out the Defy.

humpbog

Yes, the Renegade Expert is now on my radar. I'm hoping I can go give it a test ride this weekend.

katsup

Why can't you research the models you like, then find a used one in your size for 1/3 the new price? As for tune up / maintenance, I like to learn about the bike and make adjustments myself. With the used bikes I have bought, they have only needed a tube or derailleur adjustments.

Finding the desired model in your size can be a pain if you are not near a populated area though.

prtyich

I think by trial and error they meant buying the wrong bike, as opposed to testing/demo'ing bikes at an LBS and reading info on the web before spending any coin.

humpbog

I've tried. I only see either vintage or bikes that are more expensive and seemingly less featured than the brand new 2017 Defy. The cheaper ones all have inferior components that nobody recommends. Sora, earlier tiagra, etc. And of course, sizing. Even at average height, it still makes it difficult.

prtyich

If you were first coming back after several years of not driving, were looking to buy a car purely for fun and not as a commuter/car required for work, and weren't 100% sure it was an endeavor you would stay with - then yes, you'd buy the less expensive vehicle - or perhaps rent/short-term lease one to be sure.

There are some similarities here to my primary sport, ice hockey. I get queried from time to time by others interested in the sport as adults, and I always tell them when starting out to buy the cheapest gear you can get just to ensure you even like being out on the ice and playing the sport. No point in buying a $250 Bauer MX3 composite stick that Stamkos uses if you aren't even sure you will like hockey, as the resale value of hockey gear is very low.

Regardless of the sport, IMO one would want to buy low end at first as it will not prevent a person from enjoying said sport - you can always upgrade your skates, shoulder pads, sticks, helmet, etc. over time. I think hockey is a good analogy as the low-end/high-end price points are similar; low is about $400 and a high about $2K, similar to the pricing for bicycles.

humpbog

I totally agree with the hockey comparison and perhaps it is applicable to me. I was originally fine with Sora until the LBS told me it was junk and that I'd want 105+. I didn't know Sora was garbage, perhaps my perception of it would've been fine, because of the lack of exposure to anything else. Unfortunately, every bike I've test ridden now has been 105+. Would Sora now feel bad?

Isn't the range for cycling far greater than that? I'll never be on the pro level but I've seen bikes over 20k (I will never understand that).

I'm stuck on hydraulics. I hated the feel of the TRP Spyre - while rated very well, I felt absolutely no breaking power whatsoever. I was on a slight decline and I could not stop at all using the hoods, had to go to drops. These brakes were not new either and slightly broken in. Before 2017, all bikes with drop handlebars and hydraulic discs were all over 4k. That's why I'm so interested in the 2017 Defy at $2400. I wish I could find another bike for that price range that would give me the clearance that I may need in the future.

katsup

What people are saying is to buy the cheaper bike with sora, make sure you enjoy and use the bike. Once you decide that cycling is for you, buy the new one and sell the used for minimal loss. The used bike will also help you figure out what type of new bike you want.

Buying used takes patience, I see a lot of excellent bikes for great prices, but the wrong size. When I started back up again, I wasn't sure if I'd ride, so I looked at ~$150 used. Currently, I am still buying used, but my budget has increased as I now know I like cycling.

rekmeyata

And yet 99% of ALL custom made bikes are purchased on line...why is that? Because most bike shops do not have any custom bikes you can order from them and have them built, all they have is off the shelf set sizes and they try their best to get you into one of those set sizes that will fit you the best. And how does a bike shop do that? They get your inseam measurement and height, the same thing that production online bike stores do, custom builders go a bit further and they want measurements of several other key body areas. With online ordering all you have to do is follow the simple online instructions to get your correct size which is base on the same parameters as any bike shop would do. You still, regardless if on line or in a bike shop may have to change out a stem, or a seat post to dial in the fit closer, but most people are not that anal since their not racing and will make whatever came with the bike to work for them.

I do agree that if you're not sure what to get to ride a bunch of bikes which you can't do online easily, I just disagree with the fact that a person can't find a bike online because you can't do test rides, a lot of even first time cyclists have bought bikes on line and have had very little in the way of problems with fit.

rekmeyata

Sme bikes can do double duty, road and cross or gravel if you get a bike that can take wider tires up to say 40c. But if a bike comes with 23 or 25 more then likely it won't go any larger than a 28 if that.

https://www.fullspeedahead.com/need-gravel-bike/

Maelochs

Get the Anyroad. If you don't like it, too bad, but more than likely, it will be fine on any road.

If you really plan to ride across Canada .... mightn't you want a bike with racks and panniers? Or do you plan to drive across Canada and ride a bunch of out-and-back segments?

Hate to tell you but if you really plan to Ride the length of the new 22,000 km Car-Free Bike Path Across The Country the most important aspect might be the bike's carrying capacity. There might be a bike path, but I would not bet there are bike shops .... or even food and lodging.

By the way, the new bike/new car analogy is incredibly faulty.

If I were buying my first racing car and wasn't sure if I wanted a high-downforce single seater, a high-downforce sports car, a GT, a desert racer, or a rally car ....

With bikes there is almost that level of specialization.

Any bike can ride any road ... pretty much, but I can ride some stuff on my full-squish MTB i could barley walk with a road bike, and I would probably give up and go home before I could finish a metric century on the road on my MTB while on one of my road bikes it would be a pleasure.

If I went to the store on my CF sportbike, I could buy a drink and a Powerbar .... if I take my touring rig I can buy 100 lbs or groceries and still make the hills.

People here have seen a lot of posters "decide" on a bike and buy it (or get talked into buying a bike by a salesperson) only to find out they really wanted a totally different bike which was really good at some kind of riding the bike they bought was pretty bad at.

Buy what you like ... and if you think you wouldn't enjoy a bike because it wasn't new enough or good enough for you ... well, that's you. It's your money.

The reason we ask, the reason we suggest riding a while, is so we don't have to read your post about "I Bought the Wrong Bike." We have already read that one.

But it is up to you. We really don't know you, know what you know, or know what you really want.

wphamilton

Why the $2000 budget if you don't know what riding you'll do? Why extend it to $3,000? Why hydraulic disc brakes, why relaxed geometry, why 105? I'm not trying to be difficult, but making a point: if you don't know what you want it for, what has convinced you about these specifics? They could all be completely wrong!

@Maelochs is right. From what you've described, get some sort of hybrid but pay around $600 for it and keep the rest of that $3000 budget in reserve. Get a couple of thousand miles on it, or ride it for a year and two or three times that mileage, and then you'll know what you'll encounter and where and how you like to ride. You'll likely have good reason to know exactly what you want. The old one is never wasted, because we all like to have a backup bike or beater bike.

humpbog

My statements were a bit misleading. I do not plan on riding across the country solely on my bike. That's a lofty goal that I don't think I have the time to achieve. I do plan on driving throughout the country with my bike and taking advantage of these paths along the way.


You're right there but I wasn't talking about a specific type of car, I was referring to a general purpose car. Family sedan for example comes in a wide price range with many different options for the average person/family. I do get your point though.

Yes, that's what brought me here to get additional opinions. I appreciate the various insight. I think the Defy won't offer me as much versatility - that's why I was asking about adventure and possibly touring bikes. With the right tires, they could keep up with some road bikes at a casual pace.

Yeah, this is what I'm trying my best to avoid. I'm reading as much as I can, trying to catch as many of those regret posts as possible and testing out as many bikes at the same time. I think the Defy Advanced might be a mistake for me considering it's more endurance/race oriented for the paved roads - not very versatile. Best bang for buck though for components.

I've always had a problem with buying used - it's a hit or miss. There could be major problems like BB issues that would only be discovered after extended use. I'm sure if I was patient and scoured the internet for used bikes and traveled endlessly to find one in good condition, that I may get lucky. Buying used cars is WAY easier than bikes.

Maelochs

In your situation, if you do all the necessary research, no reason you shouldn't buy new.

Nothing wrong with buying used if you know what's up---but I (and others) only suggested used to get you onto a bike for cheap. Since you seem intent on a certain plan (which many aren't) then none of that really applies to you.

humpbog

The $2000 budget is because I have a lot of disposable income. It's less than 1% of my savings. Why extend to 3000? It's a purchase that I'll be making that will hopefully last 5-10 years. I figured 1k over a max of 10 years isn't a big deal. Why hydraulics? Consistent braking experience, hype (I fall for it), looks (I like it), feel, modulation. I've watched several comparison videos and I know that I'll probably be fine without them, but why not? I tried the STPs and I felt the braking power was bad. I haven't tried non discs though. I have a feeling that when they address the weight issue, most if not all bikes will have disc brakes in the future. I could be wrong. Why relaxed geometry? I'm not that flexible and I feel very uncomfortable in the more aggressive positions. My neck also hurts from trying to look up. I'm not going to race. Why 105? I don't know, I was told by several LBS and from reading online that 105 should be my starting point (for my budget I guess). I don't know who/what to believe there - I haven't had extended exposure to know the difference.

Yes, I could get a hybrid and realize (again), that I love riding bikes. I rode this type of bike for over 15 years. I know if I get a hybrid, I will like it. I've never tried a drop handlebar and I wanted to give it a chance. I'm interested in the new way of shifting, braking, hand positions, etc. It's like a new world of biking for me and this is also intriguing to me. I want to give myself the best shot of liking it, i'd hate to dismiss drops because of one bad experience with a cheaper or used bike with drops that I didn't like. I was told that it would take anywhere from 2-4 weeks to get used to before I started to feel comfortable with the change vs flat. Once I'm back into proper shape for extended riding, I will most likely want to ride with a group at times and go on longer rides. That's when the LBS' started directing me towards road oriented or bikes with drops vs a hybrid.

osco53

Trek Rip 3

Love mine..

idiotekniQues

I would consider the renegade exploit. It's the steel version of the renegade expert. Save $600 and get a similarly spec'd bike.