Chrome Molly

I consider it a performance gain because it has added a new dimension to my riding.

I was always more of a spin up the hill guy, and still am most of the time. But, having the out of the saddle option to get up hills has changed things for my riding. Out of the saddle climbing on the 760, I felt like I was dumping a lot of energy into the tires. Having swapped the tires from the new rig and the 760 as an experiment I realized that wasn't it. Something sort of feels like a dampening or absorbing effect on the trek that isn't there on the custom. I'm not even sure it's all due to the frame, might be the carbon fork vs the steel one or other factors.

Now that I have gotten more comfortable out of the saddle, I've been working on proper balance that allows getting up the hill out of the saddle without anything close to hammering (useful on the longer rides as it seems to use different muscles). I also have been trying to remain in balance when hitting it harder (but when I tire it is much more difficult). So these are two options I didn't use much before and one of those is available below AT. Spending a lot of time on indoor spin bikes, I've tried to focus on form (partly to make the indoor riding less dull). After having focused on it, I admit I am also more efficient at it on the 760 and do it on that bike more often. But it doesn't yield the same result.

The above said, I also value the "century ride" more than "stiffness". There are many stiffer bikes than what I ride that I wouldn't be happy with. Having a smooth enough ride with enough stiffness to be satisfactory is probably a different thing for everyone. When I say performance it's my personal take on it, difficult enough to describe and pretty much impossible for me to quantify.

Steve Whitlatch 

Well if I could just borrow your legs I could beat my riding partner on a 20 inch Huffy.

Narhay

Maybe new bike syndrome. Adds 5 km/h to the first few rides.

Steve Whitlatch 

Thinking about it more, I guess the more modern components are probably more of an advantage to newer riders than those that have been serious riders for years.

Steve Whitlatch 

Oh yes I do want them. Being 100 to 200 yards behind the group your riding with all day is very lonely.

Its the hills. With Brifters I can attack them. With down tube they attack me.

Fahrenheit531 

That, sir, was effing hilarious.

jyl

Don't discount the new sneakers syndrome . . . back in the day, we got one pair of new sneakers each year, usually in the fall. They were PF Flyers, for me. I never ran so fast or jumped so high as with the brand new sneakers.

My guess is: 30% new sneakers syndrome, 70% modern bike.

JohnDThompson 

Any difference seems to be submerged in the margin of error:

ProCyclingStats

And over the years, doping seems to have been a more significant factor than anything else:

Mean speed in professional cycling: No evidence of decline

Velocivixen

My take is that maybe psychologically she feels more confident riding a "new" bike because she knows it's new. I know when I ride a vintage bike I ride more carefully because I don't know for sure it's going to hold up or something might crack or the derailleur might have problems, etc. (whether or not those things could actually happen isn't the point, but it's whats going on in my mmd). On a new bike, like my Surly, where I'm the original owner, it's new and nothing's gonna break, so I'm more assertive in my riding/shifting than with the others. I sort of expect that I'm gonna go faster on it. It's definitely psychological for me.

RoadTire 

Did I win the chicken dinner?

Chrome Molly

Rubber chicken dinner

Fahrenheit531 

(For those who remember the "bike face" thread, she's doing much better these days. Thanks for your thoughts and prayers; they meant a lot.)

RoadTire 

roflol. I gotta capture that so next time someone at the office says, "winner winner..."

garage sale GT

New road bikes have some ergonomic advantages. The brifters are much more comfortable to grasp than the top of a classic Maes bar. The bar has a better shape for riding the drops.


You may not need the stiffness but you can definitely feel it. It makes pedaling and steering feel nice and positive. At the same time the frame is more compliant over small bumps by far than even very thin steel frames.

dddd

Seems to me that a stiffer frame better allows the muscles to meet resistance throughout the useful range of leg extension, which should improve muscle output.

But of course the stiffness difference between various normal frames only shows up as better motion control when leg force is at a maximum, so makes little or no difference when riding at a sustainable output, and with less-forceful riders experiencing less effect from a frame's flexibility.

A frame with too much flex though will mimic longer cranks from the leg's point of view, which might lead to joint soreness.

The modern bikes do have a few tricks up their sleeves, as has been mentoned, but I used my '71 Super Sport today with Twin-Stick shifters on a fast-paced 51-mile ride up into the foothills, rode hard and only dropped back toward the tops of several extended climbs, this obviously due mainly to the bike's 30+ pound weight.
I blew a 27x1-1/4" back tire out thru the middle of the tread on the very last climb of the ride, older Cyclepro skinwall tire, but booted nicely with a once-folded $ bill and was even able to patch the jagged hole in the tube. Got back in plenty of time for beers/dogs and socializing behind the local shop.

3alarmer

.........twss

3alarmer

...she said that, too.

Zinger

Optimum gearing on the newer 10-11 speed cassettes certainly doesn't hurt. Heavier wheels = slower acceleration and you find yourself playing catchup a lot.

repechage

This reminds me, way way back I got to test ride a Brand new Klein in 1975, they were barely in production if that. My immediate response, this is the future of the criterium race bike, it was SO STIFF in comparison to anything else. One got up out of the saddle and felt like all your effort was going to the ground and not deflecting the frame. I was not sure about comfort in a long road race as the bike felt a bit jarring, but it FELT fast. Perception quite persuasive.
I test rode before that a Teledyne Titan on our club ride that had a decent climb, that bike was flexible, but it felt like it rebounded against your effort in a way that gave your your effort back if you were at the right cadence.
The Jan Heine "planing" deal I view with skepticism, but if one feels something is better than that perception is worth quite a bit.

That is why way back I had specialized bikes for road, criterium, Sprint track races and Pursuit.

Today the psychological tables are turned, I ride vintage steel with tubulars, the guys in mod 6-9k carbon rigs get bewildered when I stay up with them as my bike is SO MUCH SLOWER, (just go ahead and keep believing that carbon guys), great for the mind games they play on themselves.

It is true that on a modern 10-11 speed cassette bike the chances of having the "right" gear are much better, there is some value to this as a typical human is just not turning out that many watts, the torque, power, sustainable effort matrix is pretty narrow.

Fahrenheit531 

Thanks for all the posts in response. This has been fun and informative. I wish I had more to contribute on my end, but my personal experience is limited to late 70's/early 80's. I've definitely noticed a difference between bike tiers in that era, and in some cases it's been quite substantial. And now I've got a bit more knowledge on the old vs new as well (including things that never even crossed my mind, like spoke count). Much appreciated, amigos!

leicanthrope

That's what she said.

sorry

MickeyMaguire

If you want to measure the difference between old bikes and new, for power transfer (torque) the stiffness of the rear triangle makes a big difference in road bikes from low-price, to mid-range, to high-end. Look at the materials used in modern bikes and compare it to vintage. A modern carbon-fiber bike and a classic Cannondale have similar stiffness, but the high-end carbon bike will be 15 to 18 pounds, the Cannondale, 21 to 22 pounds.

Modern components are lighter and there is less flex in cranksets, for example. Torque can be enhanced in these conditions, but, to an average cyclist, you are not likely to feel a difference if you compare mid-range bikes of yore to mid-range bikes of today when they are similar (aluminum v. aluminum). Compare aluminum or steel to carbon-fiber, it's apples to oranges.

A professional cyclist or serious enthusiast will notice differences. Are they worth the money? That is the question.

As for smoothness of the ride, can't beat those old steel frames (average weight in 70s and 80s vintage is probably 25-27 pound range).

busdriver1959

Nobody has really mentioned this but the comparison isn't really C&V vs. Modern here. The two "previous" bikes mentioned in the OP are a mixte and a hybrid. I believe that when you compare performance on those against a drop bar road bike of any age, properly set up, the drop bar will win every time. There's an obvious aerodynamic advantage and I think there are physiological advantages too. A good position will engage different muscle groups than an upright position so I think there is more power available to use.

randyjawa 

This is my Cyclops and it is faster and easier to ride/use in this form...



...than in this form, same bicycle...

rccardr 

I ride only 25+ year old frames, steel and aluminum. Some have DT shifters, some have brifters. Some are equipped with modern 10 speed components, others with mid 80's 6 speed doubles. My average speeds are pretty much the same on all of them, and we're talking about a dozen different bikes.

Did try an experiment a few years ago, comparing modern carbon (Trek Madone 6.X, Ultegra) to my orange Merckx Corsa Extra (inexpensive compact crank, 5700 105, DT shifters) which is now owned by Sloar, on my 20 mile familiar/training loop. Won't go into the details on how we tried to make them as equally comparable as possible (e.g. same rider, same gearing, day of rest between rides, etc.), but the end result was that there was no difference in average speed between the two bikes when I rode them.

I mention that to the guys with whom I ride and they find it hard to believe, but there you have it.