CB HI

You have a grand way of declaring other posters have no evidence while not providing any evidence yourself.

CB HI

If your statment is true, why does one group choose to cycle and the other group choose to motor. Seems clear there is a basic difference in the two groups. Seems your bias is blinding you to this very simple fact.

DX-MAN

I read the last 50; it was enough. Actually, it was less venomous than other articles' comment sections.

That MISperception is nationwide, trust me. Cities that tout their 'bike-friendliness' have some SERIOUS issues going on!

It won't go away soon, either; we'd have to fundamentally change human nature. . . .

kenji666

Can a cyclist be charged with felony manslaughter if a pedestrian dies from injuries sustained from a collision, when the cyclist is unquestionably at fault?

Commando303

I'm unaware of a burr in my ass, though you seem to have some unfortunate bull-shlt lodged in your throat to which you may wish to tend. The bicyclist apparently caused an accident due to recklessness, then remained on the scene, as any person should have done. Your accusation that most motorists would have fled is as asinine as it is unfounded. As I said, how do you find this to be an opportunity to whine about drivers? It's completely irrelevant.

genec

Really? Human nature? Seems like humans in some European cities can cope just fine with the bicycle. What needs to change is the attitude of lots of American motorists. This is not a human nature issue. Heck, the Automobile has only been around for just about 100 years... that is hardly a blip in the history of humans.

Commando303

No, he shouldn't have stopped. Slow down, survey your surroundings, move on: proper bicycling behavior.

fuji86

This is generally why I ride slower, I agree with everything you posted because I view cyclists as a super pedestrian in that they can attain much higher speeds than walkers, joggers & runners, with a higher responsibility for the slower and less able, even if they are on the wrong side of the road or whatever. Just as motorists have the same social responsibility to safeguard any life they encounter. At the very least, getting thrown from your bike and no significant injuries and you'd still have to apologize at the very least. Look at this foolishness and mess that was unnecessary and created because one would not use common sense, acted out of stupidity. Even if the cyclist was in the right, his bicycle is a mangled POS now, needs to be replaced.

With this post I await the usual suspects to post statutes stating a cyclist is a vehicle. Some just don't get it, why get even the smallest case of road rash if you can use your brake pads and stop ? Why injure another person, when the whole incident was foresee-able and within another's control to ensure it never happened by simply riding safe for the conditions ? I mean when the speed limit is 70 mph and the road is iced or it's raining, nobody in their right mind would drive so fast as to hydroplane or not be able to have adequate visibility ? But let's face it, there will always be those who are not only a detriment to others, but to themselves.

jsdavis

Anyone who lives or work near Embarcadero will know that the bicyclist that stops on that road is the exception, not the norm so it is not entirely perception if only for that area. I've been once buzzed while crossing that road with one guy yelling at me, "I told you I wasn't going to stop," and another time someone riding through a crowd during the morning commute yelled "I have no brakes." During commute time, it is common to to have several hundred people in the crosswalk in that area.

Having worked in that area for a couple years, when crossing Embarcadero, even if all the cars are stopped, one still has to be cautious of bicycles because it's 99% chance the bicyclist is not going to stop.

Digital_Cowboy

I agree, had the cyclist stopped for the red light the whole crash could have been avoided. How many times have we seen cyclists b!tching and moaning because some motorist failed to stop for a red light or stop sign?

As has been said countless times, if we as cyclists want to be taken seriously as legal road users than we need to act in a legal, responsible, predictable manner. And that means coming to a stop at red lights/stop signs, riding with traffic, riding with lights and/or reflectors.

If we don't act like legal, responsible, predictable road users we'll find our right to access roads limited.

Brennan

Yes, a lot of cyclists blow through stop signs and red lights, but I am beyond fed up with the widespread perception that cyclists are somehow unique when it comes to violating traffic laws. I'd say motorists exceed speed limits at the same rate that cyclists run stop signs. Examples are not hard to find. As for the area around Embarcadero, countless pedestrians cross against the red there, all day, every day. If somebody wants to call out scofflaws, that's fine. I just take issue when cyclists are singled out. This bias is apparent whenever an article like this comes out. If a cyclist causes an accident, many of the comments routinely condemn ALL cyclists. If a motorist causes an accident, most of the comments condemn the INDIVIDUAL motorist, not all of them. There is a double standard at work, no doubt about it. So, I take issue with the notion that we are the only ones who must clean up our act. Why is it incumbent upon us to coddle people's hypocrisies? Extend that appeal to all forms of personal transportation, and I will be far more accepting.

Brennan

Sorry, but this notion is a bit pie in the sky. You assume the cyclist haters are operating on rationality. Lawbreaking is the blunt object that they beat us over the head with, but that is not their primary objection to us. They hate us because we GET IN THEIR WAY. If every cyclist obeyed every traffic law every day, they would still hate us, and they will never, ever "take us seriously."

Digital_Cowboy

Lawbreaking doesn't help. If cyclists did obey the laws that would help. The irony though is that they get in each other's way more than we do.

Some would, but not all would hate us. There are those who do not hate us and who are content to share the road with us. As, as has been said before most motorists don't know how the laws apply to cyclists, nor do they know how to drive around those who operating their bikes in a safe, legal, confident, self-assured manner.

If all cyclists acted in a legal, responsible, predictable manner that would be the first step to getting respect. The second would be IF motorists would learn the laws that apply to cyclists as well as how to operate their vehicles around cyclists.

myrridin

Your making a claim to difference based upon which mode they use? Provide proof...

While I can't provide concrete data to the contrary, they is ample anecdotal evidence just on this forum that cyclists routinely break laws much like motorists. And your own posts are ample evidence of your own anger management problem, much like is claimed for motorists... You are still following scofflaw motorists home and confronting them, no?

My "claim" is simply that there is no reason to expect people to be behave differently because they choose different modes of travel. So you are asking me to "prove" a negative, while you refuse to provide evidence (much less proof) of your ridiculous statement that cyclists are (of course) more law abiding than motorists...

myrridin

What part of my statement seemed to require evidence in your mind? Perhaps you expect me to prove a negative (impossible). Perhaps you expect proof of the statement that "people are people"...

Have you really let your anger management problem really get you to the point that you don't think of motorists as fellow human beings anymore?

CB HI

You are so full of it. Demands proof from others while never providing it himself. False claims that it is others that have anger management problems. And your typical strawman assertion that I claimed cyclist are more law abiding (in general terms) is far different than my noting more cyclist will stop rather than hit & run than motorist.

Why do you hate cyclist.

genec

Actually myriddin is totally wrong...

People are quite different when they chose different modes of travel... for one, riding a bike suddenly generally takes away the ability to move at speeds greater than the posted speed... so if one is normally a leadfoot while driving an auto, they will find that leadfoot propensity cured by riding a bike.

If one is an overtly aggressive motorist, you generally find that riding a bike takes away your ability to charge and boss other road users about.

If as a motorist you feel protected by the automobile, you will find yourself quite exposed on a bike.

And certain solid facts do apply here, which is carelessness on a bike tends to be self destructive. Carelessness in an automobile usually impacts others as seriously, or in the case of bicyclists and pedestrians, more seriously.

myrridin

I suggest you look through my posts, I routinely provide sources for my facts.

And it wouldn't take much searching for someone to find your threads relating to following motorists home and confronting them, or the thread where you bragged about maintaining a list of all of the motorists license plates that had offended you over the years... In short you have provided all of the evidence needed of your anger management problems....

And as I said there is no evidence or reason to believe that cyclists are more likely to stop for a hit and run on a pedestrian than a motorist. And you fail to provide any actual evidence of that... Your typically argument.

myrridin

Actually no I am not. If someone is a civil human being, they will be a civil human being without regard to which mode they use. If one is an as%&^ then that will not change when they ride a bike or a drive a car. The only solid facts you offer are your own prejudices... For instance ask the pedestrians who have been injured or killed by careless cyclists if the cyclists was only self-destructive...

Oh, I forgot, BICYCLES ARE GOOD, THEREFORE CYCLISTS ARE GOOD, ANGELIC EVEN... SO MUCH BETTER THAN THERE FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS...

unterhausen

The incidence of accidents where cyclists injure or kill someone is extremely low, so the opportunity for hit and run is far less. It almost doesn't make sense to ask the question.

I don't think finding pro-cyclist opinions on a cycling forum should be so very shocking to anyone though

CbadRider

This thread is beyond redemption with all of the accusations and name-calling.

Closed.