Hi everyone;

I've recently started riding again, I've really missed it. I've also been looking at Craigslist a lot just in case I see something special (mostly for touring bikes on the cheap). The problem is I don't know what the deals are and what to stay far away from when it comes to all the other bikes out there. It also seems that a couple people are posting a lot of the ads as the backgrounds of the photos are all the same, I'm guessing they are the ones trying to make money from it and to stay away from those bikes.

I want to get a bike or two at a time that I can work on, I used to be a mechanic and since I don't have a garage anymore, this would keep me wrenching a little.

I want to be able to get a bike and restore it so that someone else would be happy riding it. I don't want to make any money from it, but I don't want to put more into a bike than what it's worth when I have to sell it. That is where the problem lies. I just don't know enough about brands and the market of older bikes to know whats worth fixing and what to sell them for when I'm done.

If you guys could give me any hints I'd really appreciate it. What brands should I look for, what should I stay far away from?

When you restore a bike do you typically have to replace a lot of components, or do you mostly just take the bike apart and clean, lube, polish the parts? If you need to replace things, what are the most common components to replace besides seats, cables, tape, chains, tires, brake pads, etc.

I think it would be a great way for me to learn a bit about truing wheels and get better at adjusting derailers, etc.

I just don't want to be wasting money. I'm also a little scared I won't want to sell the bikes after, but I just don't have room to store more than two.

Thanks for any insight!

I built a website, consisting of over five hundred pages of information, so far, designed to help people, like yourself, better understand the world of vintage road bicycles. The website, MY "TEN SPEEDS" should answer most of the kinds of questions that you are asking.

To best begin your journey through MY "TEN SPEEDS", I suggest that you begin by learning how to determine a quality vintage road bicycle from those of lesser pedigrees.

I hope this is a help and good luck finding your way through this very interesting activity.

A few things to look for before needing to dig any deeper (if ya dont' see 'em, pass)

1. a bike-shop or boutique name (Peugeot, Raleigh, Bottecchia, Fuji, etc)
2. a 3 piece crank - if it's cottered, expect either old, or heavy, or both, but don't necessarily indicate poor quality. This will involve some digging on your part
3. Does it have safety levers? A lot of decent bikes did, but no high-end bikes had them. Keep it in mind
4. What size/type of wheels? If you're looking for a road bike built after 1965 or so, you'd be looking for 27" or 700c aluminum rims. If you're going with an upright, "English 3 speed" style bike, 26X1-3/8 is most common, with 28X1-1/2 being less so. Cheap department store roadbikes sometimes had 26X1-3/8 steel wheels, and after a certain age (again, mid-60's), most better bikes had aluminum wheels.


The thing about it is that if you like a certain bike, it doesn't matter what the quality is. One of my best riding bikes (to me) is a Peugeot that was bottom of the line when it was built. It's heavy and slow, but it's very, very comfortable. Matter of fact, with one notable exception, nearly all of my bikes were mid-range models, and I'm perfectly happy with them.



That said, given the chance to get a Raleigh International or a PX-10, I wouldn't turn up my nose.

The big giveaways that you're looking at a lower-end bike that you'll probably want to stay away from are Brake extension levers, stem shifters and stamped dropouts.

As long as you avoid these three things, you'll be firmly in the mid-to-high-end range of bikes.

I would say:

- avoid older Schwinns and French bikes with non-standard threaded components
- avoid everything with more than a bit of surface rust
- unless you up for truing wheels, avoid everything with problematic wheels
- avoid everything with one piece cranks
- when buying a bike, bring along some allen wrenches. Try to remove the stem and seatpost. If either is stuck, pass on the bike
- avoid department store brands (Huffy, Murray, Free Spirit -with few exceptions)

It is true that hi-tensile steel, turkey wings, chain protectors, stem shifters etc do denote an entry level bike; but entry level bikes would be fine for your purpose and as a matter of fact, since the acquisition $ is low, they might be what you should be look for your first project instead of (lets say) a Colnago.

Stay inexpensive, so if you make a mistake, it's an affordable learning experience. And it's good to practice wrenching on those as well. After a couple $100 bikes you should have paid <$50 for; you'll know it when you stumble across a $700 bike for $300.

Look for: Anything
Avoid: Rust

Unless it Campy equipted I try to stay away from anything pre-'82-ish.

Always check if the seatpost and stem are removable from the frame before buying the bike. Seized seatposts and stems can be big show stoppers in any classic restoration. Some projects have been delayed for months and even years, or given up on because a seatpost and a stem would not budge

Chombi

The best advice is to spend a month reading as much here as you can. Remember, some Paramounts had turkey levers and stem shifters. Old Schwinns are not to be avoided if you know what you are looking at. Read the ten speeds site, and read a ton here. If you buy without research, be sure to buy cheap.

You will need some special bike tools- a crank puller, pedal wrench, allen key set, chain breaker, a bike stand. Japanese bikes made in the 80's are the easiest to find parts for. Almost any bike that old will need new cables, a seat, bar tape, a complete bearing regrease, maybe a chain, tires...the initial price is just the beginning.
Good luck.
If you want a French bike because of their comfortable ride, classic styling and prestige of ownership.. ..get one from the late 80's as by that time most of them had standard thread sizes.

At the co-op a couple of weeks ago I was preparing an old (1970's?) Columbia for sale. Its stem was raised up abnormally high so I loosened the bolt to drop it down to a more "normal" height. It would not budge. I sprayed it liberally with a penetrating lubricant, pounded on it with a mallet, added more lubricant and let it sit while I trued the wheels and cleaned up the rest of the bike. With nothing left to do I took up the stem issue again thinking (hoping?) that the lubricant would have worked its magic. No dice. I drag over a shop mentor and he takes several wacks at it to no avail. Finally he drags the thing over to the angle grinder and starts cutting off the stem. The vibration from the power tool actually did loosen the stem but by then it was too late.

You got the list of common parts needing replacement perfect. Here are some other (probably repeated items) to avoid

bolt on wheelsets (unless you go very cheap)
chrome / steel wheels
bikes over 30 lbs
straight bar bikes
stem shifters (not a killer but not the best)
some side pull brakes that have a very cheap feel - you'll know
bolt on chainrings

Some good things
sub 25 lbs
alloy wheels
700c wheels
alloy anything
cloth bar tape (usually rotting but usually on better quality bikes)
shields and other etchings on drop bar tops
Suntour components
bar end shifters

To me, the quickest way to assess the relative value of a bike in a given lineup is it has stamped (cheap) or forged (higher quality) dropouts. Nearly every major maker had a range of quality in their product line. At some point, maybe just below the middle of the range, the stamped dropouts end and the forged ones begin. Everything from there up is usually pretty good quality. Frame materials that are less sophisticated include "1020" and "High Tensile" (or "Hi Ten"). "4130" is okay but still not the best. When you see decals indicating the frame material and it says who made it (Columbus, Reynolds, etc.), you're getting into better quality stuff.

As far as wheels go, I agree that aluminum alloy is something to look for. They are a dull silver; steel wheels have a shiny chrome appearance. Stay away from the chrome. If the wheel is out of true side to side, as long as it isn't too bad, you can probably true it. If there are any discontinuties in the cross section of the rim from hitting a curb, or the rim has a "hop" (out of true in the radial or up-and-down direction), stay away. A hop often indicates the rim is bent and you can't get rid of it just by playing with the spoke tension.

One wildcard in all this is if you find an older English bike (Raleigh, Humber, Phillips, Hercules, etc.), if it looks at all salvageable, it's worth a look. They are throwbacks- heavy as heck. They often have Sturmey Archer AW 3-speed hubs with a year and month date code (like 65 12 for December, 1965). These are classics and if you can get one cheap enough, you won't lose money. Riding a properly tuned English Roadster like that is a whole different experience in cycling; it's like cruising in an old Cadillac. Very posh.

Look for any evidence of bent frame - I always back up several steps to see if the forks line up with the head tube. I also feel the top/downtubes for any bulging. Look at all the lugs to make sure that there are no cracking/loosening issues. Don't forget to look at the tubing from the bottom for any dents, etc. Be suspicious of any aftermarket stickers on the bike, unscrupulous sellers sometimes use these to cover dings/dents.

Any frame damage at all for anything other than some super high end collectible thing is pretty much a no-no for me, unless it is factored into the price and I'm more or less buying the bike for the parts.

Thanks for all the replies guys, I've been reading Randy's site as I have time.

I just found this bike in the dumpster outside our place. I'll take a closer look at it when the sun comes out one of these days.

Usually, an Apollo with steel rims is something I would avoid. But free? Great! And its a mixte which makes all the difference IMHO.

It has several of the typical bottom end features many pointed out above to avoid: steel rims, turkey levers, nutted axles, claw derailleur hanger (guess on my part), steel seat post, stem shifters, stamped steel side stand, steel handlebars, very likely high ten steel frame. If it was not a mixte, in my area I would take it directly to my favorite thrift store and donate it, as it would not be worth the time or $$ to rehab. But as a mixte, it will command a nice premium.

Hah

I almost ignored the bike when I first saw it, but it looked strange so I wheeled it home and discovered that it is what you said, a "Mixte". I thought it was funny when I was checking it out this morning very briefly how it was pretty much everything people said to avoid.

I don't know what the rear derailer type is, and you're right, it is 012 Hi Ten.

I finally just finished reading pretty much everything on your site, wonderful! Took me a couple days to get through it, but I did.

Thanks for taking your time to put out so much useful information.