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🔒 Should Bike Manufactures Do More To Prevent Bike Theft?

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Old 08-28-18 | 03:29 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL
You can't expect me to do all the work. However, they can take some notes from the aftermarket.Because they're selling you a very expensive product where the theft level is extremely high. Think back, when the car industry was faced with the same dilemma years ago people complained and they stepped up to the plate.

Today, cars have multiple theft deterrent devices installed right from the factory. They're not alone, laptops have that option (albeit for additional cost) you can check as well. What makes bikes so different?
no, YOU are buying an expensive product more than they are selling it. like anything else you buy, take care of it. talking about cars, look how effective alarms are: how often have you seen anyone react to a car alarm going off ? yours is a typical liberal slant to make this about abdicating one's own responsibilities to others (like the federal government), in this case, bike makers.
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Old 08-28-18 | 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by badger1
Bicycles are not cars. They are not laptops.

If there were a demand for bicycles with built-in theft-proofing, whether that be mechanical or electronic or some combination of the two, someone ( a mfg.) would be making them. There is not, so they are not. Clearly, most buyers -- self included -- are not prepared to incur the added expense to purchase a bicycle with effective mechanical/electronic 'theft proofing' built in.

You want to 'theft-proof' your bike? Buy an appropriate lock, lug it around with you, and lock up your bike as
conditions necessitate. Most of us have long since figured this one out.

/thread
Actually in quite a few places in Europe, bikes come ready equipped with lights, racks, locks and fenders, as people regularly commute and use bikes just like Americans use cars. In fact such bikes were quite the norm in Finland, and finding a "stripped bike" like that typically seen in America was a "special order."

So it's not as if such things don't have a market... it is more like America just isn't the market for them. (or at least so we've been told... )
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Old 08-28-18 | 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
Actually in quite a few places in Europe, bikes come ready equipped with lights, racks, locks and fenders, as people regularly commute and use bikes just like Americans use cars. In fact such bikes were quite the norm in Finland, and finding a "stripped bike" like that typically seen in America was a "special order."

So it's not as if such things don't have a market... it is more like America just isn't the market for them. (or at least so we've been told... )
Ready equipped with all of the above accessories right from the manufacturer or dealer installed?
Big difference.
Maybe you can attach a link to the manufacturer’s website showing these bikes?
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Old 08-28-18 | 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster

Ready equipped with all of the above accessories right from the manufacturer or dealer installed?
Big difference.
Maybe you can attach a link to the manufacturer’s website showing these bikes?

Here are some pics from a bike shop in Oulu.




BTW the last shot is a just a bunch of local bikes parked at one of the many racks about town.

Do you speak Finnish?

Sähköpyörät 2018 - Tunturi Do take note of the lock, rack and fenders.

This is a particularly nice model...
TUNTURI ZONAR naisten malli - Tunturi
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Old 08-28-18 | 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
Here are some pics from a bike shop in Oulu.




BTW the last shot is a just a bunch of local bikes parked at one of the many racks about town.

Do you speak Finnish?

Sähköpyörät 2018 - Tunturi Do take note of the lock, rack and fenders.

This is a particularly nice model...
TUNTURI ZONAR naisten malli - Tunturi
That’s pretty cool. I stand corrected
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Old 08-28-18 | 05:01 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by genec
Actually in quite a few places in Europe, bikes come ready equipped with lights, racks, locks and fenders, as people regularly commute and use bikes just like Americans use cars. In fact such bikes were quite the norm in Finland, and finding a "stripped bike" like that typically seen in America was a "special order."

So it's not as if such things don't have a market... it is more like America just isn't the market for them. (or at least so we've been told... )
Agree, but we are talking about the (North) American market, presumably? We are not talking about Finland, or Copenhagen. Here, there does not appear to be a demand for such appliances. If and when there is, I've no doubt at all some mfg will pop up to fill that demand. Mr. Bill pointed out one such mfg in his area (Boston).

Here, the bicycle as a 'sporting' item appears to be the norm, and that fact consequently influences the vast majority of sales in and production for the NA market. Just the way it is; neither 'right' nor 'wrong'.

I certainly fall into that marketing demographic. I do not need, and I most certainly do not want, a bicycle festooned with fenders, locking and other security devices whether mechanical or electronic, and so on from the shop floor. I assume my attitude is representative of the vast majority of NA bicycle purchasers, for good or ill, and that consequently Brinks-truck type bicycles will be a best a niche market here, at least in the foreseeable future.
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Old 08-28-18 | 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by badger1
Agree, but we are talking about the (North) American market, presumably? We are not talking about Finland, or Copenhagen. Here, there does not appear to be a demand for such appliances. If and when there is, I've no doubt at all some mfg will pop up to fill that demand. Mr. Bill pointed out one such mfg in his area (Boston).
Actually Fortified Bicycle is in Cambridge (our fair city) MA. The reason I didn’t point out Vanmoof is the usual suspects whining that it’s somehow completely different in “Holland.” For some reason they have a hot spot in Brooklyn. But that’s somehow different too.

(BTW, the Copenhagen Wheel is also from Cambridge (our fair city) MA.)

Anyhow, some folks here really need to get out more. Even in *gasp* North America there are real people riding real bicycles who don’t pass the sneering “serious cyclist” moniker or the “serious bicycle” label.

Is there a market for five figure titanium bicycles? Oh, that’s completely different, because Seven Cycles (Watertown MA) makes “serious bicycles” for “serious cyclists.”

Originally Posted by badger1
I assume my attitude is representative of the vast majority of NA bicycle purchasers, for good or ill, and that consequently Brinks-truck type bicycles will be a best a niche market here, at least in the foreseeable future.
Bottom line - anything that *I* want is mainstream. Anything that everyone else wants is “niche.”

Anyone who wants a “serious” commuting bike wants a used Buick.

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 08-28-18 at 06:33 PM.
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Old 08-29-18 | 12:14 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by badger1
Agree, but we are talking about the (North) American market, presumably? We are not talking about Finland, or Copenhagen. Here, there does not appear to be a demand for such appliances. If and when there is, I've no doubt at all some mfg will pop up to fill that demand. Mr. Bill pointed out one such mfg in his area (Boston).

Here, the bicycle as a 'sporting' item appears to be the norm, and that fact consequently influences the vast majority of sales in and production for the NA market. Just the way it is; neither 'right' nor 'wrong'.

I certainly fall into that marketing demographic. I do not need, and I most certainly do not want, a bicycle festooned with fenders, locking and other security devices whether mechanical or electronic, and so on from the shop floor. I assume my attitude is representative of the vast majority of NA bicycle purchasers, for good or ill, and that consequently Brinks-truck type bicycles will be a best a niche market here, at least in the foreseeable future.
The lack of demand (discounting Mr Bill's provided info) is largely due to the "bike as toy" mentality maintained in the US by bike manufactures and others.

There is another brand of bike in the US that is quite suitable for commuting and daily riding... called the Workman Bicycles. https://www.worksmancycles.com/?u=ht...=224423029328#

Not exactly a brand with built in locks per se, but certainly not geared for the typical "bike as toy" market... these are largely industrial bikes for use on large campuses and work sites as transportation... yup, bikes can be used as transportation and work, and this company knows that... even here in America.
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Old 08-29-18 | 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill


Actually Fortified Bicycle is in Cambridge (our fair city) MA. The reason I didn’t point out Vanmoof is the usual suspects whining that it’s somehow completely different in “Holland.” For some reason they have a hot spot in Brooklyn. But that’s somehow different too.

(BTW, the Copenhagen Wheel is also from Cambridge (our fair city) MA.)

Anyhow, some folks here really need to get out more. Even in *gasp* North America there are real people riding real bicycles who don’t pass the sneering “serious cyclist” moniker or the “serious bicycle” label.

Is there a market for five figure titanium bicycles? Oh, that’s completely different, because Seven Cycles (Watertown MA) makes “serious bicycles” for “serious cyclists.”



Bottom line - anything that *I* want is mainstream. Anything that everyone else wants is “niche.”

Anyone who wants a “serious” commuting bike wants a used Buick.

-mr. bill
I have to laugh at your Buick comment... After years of commuting on various "racer bikes," I had a custom bike built... as my "commuter truck." Front and rear racks, lighting (which changed over the years) and upright style, for visibility.

This was in the '80s... before mountain biking became hugely popular. I literally rode "everywhere" on that bike.



I mean "everywhere."



Yet, no built in lock. Go figure. I just used U-locks.
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Old 08-29-18 | 12:56 PM
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I have to say, many bikes have built in bottle cage mounts, and built-in pump pegs.

Some bike racks have provisions for carrying locks, but it would be easy enough to add a secure place to carry a U-Lock, say on the rear triangle of the bike.

This might make sense for a bike being designed and marketed purely as a commuter bike. Perhaps with a built-in rack.

Then again, would the panniers go over the top of the lock, so they would have to be removed to get to the lock? What about different lock sizes and models?

However, in the USA, bicycle needs are extremely diverse. Some people commute on road bikes, others commute on single speeds, some on mountain bikes, some on carbon, some on steel, some on aluminum.

I frequently carry my lock in my backpack,, but you can bet, if I don't plan to stop, the lock stays home.

A couple of my bikes have no eyelets (too much extra weight), so should one expect them to have a lock carrier?

Anyway, all this is possible, and some are working on it, but it really only applies to dedicated commuter bikes which is only a small portion of the market.
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Old 08-31-18 | 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by genec
The lack of demand (discounting Mr Bill's provided info) is largely due to the "bike as toy" mentality maintained in the US by bike manufactures and others.
Including too many LBSs.

Originally Posted by mr_bill
As 2016 ended and 2017 began, lots of changes, some small, some large.

Starting with Somerville changes.

The temporary (on it's way to permanent) separated bicycle lane at Beacon St in Somerville, bear left at Bicycle Belle.

....
-mr. bill


"Bicycle Belle was founded on the idea that bicycles are often the best way to get around the city. There are many bike shops out there, but most sell bikes for recreation that aren’t suitable for short urban trips.

We run things a little differently."

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 08-31-18 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 08-31-18 | 12:15 PM
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I would love to see carbon frames, forks, and maybe even some components--stems, crank arms, for instance, have a scannable chip molded in. This could serve multiple purposes, a VIN equivalent for registration and tracking of stolen bikes plus date coding for warranty coverage, and give manufacturers an ability to verify genuine goods vs. counterfeit--a real situation in high end bikes and parts these days. Thought of it when I was sitting with one of our cats in my lap and realized that I could feel the chip under the skin on his neck and figured it couldn't add enough weight to a bike to notice even if one bike had half a dozen of them.
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