parkbrav

Any one have any tips for cycling on thin ice? I have a thin ice situation where it looks like an attractive time-saving alternate route, but I'm unsure how to judge the situation. Thanks

MNBikeCommuter

First question would be, "How deep is the water for when you break through?" Getting wet in cold conditions isn't a trivial matter.

rumrunn6

bring a camera


not sure we have enough info to make guesses
in the above photo there were several factors at play. in that specific situation, riding right thru worked fine
but I can think of many scenarios that would not end well

if it were me, I would get more intel

Polaris OBark

ClydeClydeson

giv'er

79pmooney

As others said above, we need more information if we are going to help you. Are you saying thin ice as a layer over the road surface? Skinning a puddle of known or unknown depth? Over a river, stream of lake/pond that offers a shortcut?

I now live in Portland, OR where the ice can be a thin layer on the road or rained on snow that was never properly plowed before freezing solid. But significant freezing of large bodies of water rarely happen. I grew up just outside Boston with two ponds within 5 minute walks from the house. Skating virtually every winter. Periodically enough ice for my dad to plow out a rink with the Jeep after snows. Then the thin ice was at the very edges and near the creek that fed the pond where retrieving pucks could be risky.

So - tell us more! There are BFers from every imaginable ice climate. The experience is here.

parkbrav

haha yeah I'm talking about a pond here. (I've got the studs on for the normal wear and tear over the paved black ice). Wooded trail around the pond, tedious, icy stub thumps every ten seconds make it very tempting to cross directly over a shallow boggy pond, which would probably save like 10 minutes.

What should I be looking for as far as a warning signs for thin ice before I start swimming? Hahaha.

tyrion

I imagine walking the route in soft shoes would put less PSI in the ice than a bike would (unless it's a fat bike).

Walk across and get a feel for it. Leave some dry shoes and socks on shore so you can change them if you do fall in.

gecho

I went through here yesterday. The ice started breaking on the far side so I decided to get off and walk. The ice was much thinner on this side, but I hugged the wall and make it through dragging my bike along. The ice couldn't even support the weight of just the bike. I doubt I could have powered through that, it was pretty deep. Also kids like chucking boulders through the ice so there could have been some hidden in the water.

I make a habit to not ride through thin ice where I think there is more than 5" of water beneath if I think there is a chance it could break. When there is that much or less I enjoy breaking it , unless it is a really long puddle.

Sometimes your tire can break a hole through the ice just as wide as the tire, so the wheel is locked straight. Any sort of steering input is resisted and you can be thrown off balance.

Another problem with ice over ponded water is that it is usually incredibly slick and studs are less effective on it.

79pmooney

Yes, walk it first and check it out. Or brig a life guard. Or have a current will.

On a bike 1) you are a long ways from the ice surface so your brain' going to get the message "freeze and pray" later. The freezing (coming to a complete stop and spreading your weight out all you can is going to take a lot longer riding a bike.

2) If you fall, you are falling farther and hitting the ice with more impact.

Ice quality matters at least as much as thickness. The brand new, jet black, super hard ice of the early winter can be very strong. A half inch will support a hockey game easily. Disconcerting. The ice will sag under your weight and if you fall, you feel it give when you hit. (Nice - it hurts less.) Mid winter the ice can become far thicker but it "rots" as the winter progresses. Late winter becomes dangerous again. The ice may be very thick and feel solid but be very weak from repeated warming cycles. With black ice, you get the warning that it's getting too thin by the amount of bending or "give" under your weight. But late winter (like now if you still have ice) it's too thick to give and there may be no warning at all.

It can be done. As I said above, my dad's plowed out pond with a jeep. I've ice boated at 50 mph, skate sailed nearly as fast, But those were on well known ponds that were long frozen. I've also heard of the deaths of a few who took risks on the local news when I lived in skating country.

rumrunn6

um, the calendar
aren't you in the Metrowest Boston area?
surprised you are even asking at this time of year

gecho

One of my favorite thin ice videos.
Lucas might have a few tips: At least he was smart enough to have self rescue sticks with him. Without those pointy things you wouldn't have much luck pulling yourself back up on the ice. On a small pond you'd probably just have to break your way back to shore.

wolfchild

Don't do it, stay away from icy ponds with questionable ice.

blacknbluebikes 

Hey, aren't you the ex-Risk Manager for SVB ?

zandoval 

"Falling through the ice on the Charles river"

Ya Fight The Way You Train... Live Fast, Ride Fast, Die Last...

Great Vids but I just could not do ice, Now days I am barely upright on light gravel... Ha

Leisesturm

Like, you know ... THIS!

rumrunn6

I think I understand the question now. I think it would be safe to monitor temperatures. meaning find out what skaters & ice fishermen require before they trust the ice. they must have some indexes to go by. for example time & temperature. how long does it have to be what temperature for one to have thick enough ice. 20 degrees for 7 days? 10 degrees for 14 days? I don't think we should be making any decisions by what it looks like

Bald Paul

Take it from someone who has fallen through the ice before. Unless you watch a truck drive over it first, DON'T RISK IT. That water is COLD. If you don't get out right away, you'll feel your strength being sapped out of you to the point where you can't get yourself out. Even then, you'd better be able to get your wet clothes off and into something dry and warm quickly.

sweeks

I don't go out on our local lake unless I see ice fishing huts and (preferably) snowmobiles on the ice. Then I go straight to the nearest fisher and ask how thick the ice is... if it's more than 6" I have no worries. This is a lake that is spring-fed and has no streams running into or out of it... running water under the ice can cause thin spots.


This ice was about 10" thick... plenty safe!

rumrunn6

had to look that one up "One of the wisest word of the greatest Canadian to ever live, meaning to go hard at anything and everything. Give it all you got!"

Chuck M 

The first thought I had when I opened this thread was how I enjoyed watching Ice Road Truckers back in the day.

If you live in an ice fishing or ice skating part of the world there may be local resources that can tell you how they determine when it is ok to do those activities. For some reason I think there is a formula for how many days and how far below freezing the water has been.

zandoval 

Buddy System
Life Vest
Self Rescue Sticks
Throw Line
Emergency Blanket
Bicycle Flotation Device

And don't forget... A Nice Thick Layer Of Fat Over Your Entire Body!

sweeks

Here are some General Ice Thickness Guidelines.

rm -rf

Heh. from xkcd.com