Thanks for pointing this out--not that one should ever consider wikipedia to be an authoritative voice on important matters (especially legal ones), but the article does say the following...

(notes: bold from the article, italics added by me for emphasis)

Look much the same in the dark. Many have said I look like a mobile disco.

And some car drivers, still don't see me, well we all know they don't actually look, which is the real problem.

Think beyond your experience for a minute. How many times in life does someone point at something as a way of saying, "Don't go there"? It's far from a universal signal.

When someone points all I can think about is an obstacle is being pointed out ,that or BOSS BOSS da plane da plane!!. Heck just this morning a couple was driving their SUV and Saab93 to the garage, upon getting there, in rush hour traffic, she signals a right turn and pulls over into the curb lane on a main street. Traffic snarls immediately as she's not allowed to stop there at all at rush hour as she parks under the no stopping sign. No hazard signals, just a turn. Then hubby with no signals at all pulls over from the center lane at a crawl to park half on the sidewalk. I carve around them to the centre just as car coming up behind me locks his brakes up as he thought she was turning into the garage, not stopping less than 10 feet from the intersection. I love it when drivers are screamin' at each other.

...um...and...did you POINT at them?

I'm not getting the point here.

Turn signals almost never used correctly in cars, WTF would we bother on a bike?

Hand signals confusing? Not if you just point where you're going. That's pretty intuitive. The right-turn signal is the least important one anyway, because a cyclist turning right generally does not generate a conflict due to already being the closest thing to the curb by default.

LOL. Dude, you might want to consider a vacation at this ranch.

What nimrod you ask?? Try 90% of all car drivers below 55 yrs old!

As to your situation......
Sit up to turn so you're plainly visible to traffic. If ya don't and get hit then you've met your
first nimrod....you.

https://www.bicygnals.com/

While we are (still) on this, what about going boat-style too...? Green - curb side, red - traffic side...

No, wait, once you take the lane and go further left, that screws everything up...

This looks excellent. Worth mentioning that set comes with front finger triggers that wirelessly trigger a separate set of rear signals, and also comes with front/rear head/tal lights. What more could we ask for? If it weren't for the pitiful state of the US dollar( the £39.95 price for the front/rear signal kit converts to about $74 USD plus $10 USD for shipping) and the fact that I already have front/rear blinkies, i'd probably snag one right now.

heh this would be a good idea if drivers were familiar with the system and didn't drive in direction oriented lanes like boats do.

Ooops - original post should have stated who wouldn't realize you DO intend to go there when you are pointing there. Dang laptops are hard for me to type on, still haven't figured out what key I am hitting to make the cursor jump around and insert words in weird places.

But I must sadly admit, that you have assumed a range of motion in my left shoulder that does not exist without dislocation. Of course, to follow your advice, I could let go of the handlebars so that I could get my arm and torso more perpendicular to the ground, would that make me more or less of a nimrod???

I will stand by my conviction that anyone not capable of understanding that a cyclist intends to turn right when he points at the road to the right with his right arm will be in the minority. And I also believe it will be a smaller minority than those who are incapable of understanding signaling right with your left arm.

Well, that's a start. It's kewl, but seems a bit underdesigned. Personally I'd like my indicators a lot further apart than that kit, to make it more clear, and arranged in an arrow-shaped configuration. I'd also like my indicators to be at minimum equivalent to 1 Watt Luxeons, and preferably more like the 3-5Watt level. My original plan was 3 1-Watt Luxeons in a pointer triangle on each side, sticking out on each side something like the handlebar width.

Well as someone pointed out, motorcycle/scooter turn signals arn't that much farther apart and work effectively. What makes this particular design effective is that it has a set of center LEDs which can be left on constant. With the center set on "constant" and either left or right set on "blink" 2/3 of the light bar now "act as an arrow" where the center set of LEDs acts as a reference tail end of the "arrow" and the blinking set the "tip" of the arrow. If I were a driver and saw that I think it'd be pretty obvious which way the "arrow" was pointing. The constant center light is necessary though.

That's true, but on the bike I'd want to differentiate a turn blinker and center hazard blinker as much as possible and remove any ambiguity about what the blinking light means. Motorcycle/scooter lights are more powerful, too - this set can't be very bright. If you could run these as bright as a motorcycle set, and have some additional hazard blinkers to differentiate yourself from a motorcycle, that would work fine.

But seriously, I think that most of us are missing the point.

(pre-PS: I'm going to assume a utopian society where people actually USE their turn signals )

Where turn signals really earn their keep is when a vehicle is about to change lanes (which, in effect, includes turning off the roadway; but I'll stick with lane changes for the moment). Giving the signal before changing lanes notifies drivers nearby, including the one sitting in the blind spot. They can either make sure that there's room or honk to warn the first driver that they can't move.

One big difference between bicycles and cars/trucks/motorcycles/buses/scooters is the speed differential. You're just not going to have a motor vehicle nearby for more than a few seconds (unless you're in a traffic jam, in which case you'll probably be moving faster than everyone else anyway). There's little use, then, in lighting up a turn signal.

Making a right turn on a bike (on right-hand drive streets, that is) doesn't affect surrounding traffic very much; giving a hand signal is as much of a courtesy as anything else, probably appreciated more by cross traffic waiting at the intersection than by the people behind you.

Making a left turn across the street shouldn't affect traffic very much, either. If you're crossing over safely, you're using a large enough gap in traffic that you won't be forcing people to jam their brakes (and, most likely, causing a rear-end collision somewhere behind them... which is in another thread). So, then, there's nobody near & to the rear that needs to see a signal.

I figure the safest way to ride on the street is to ride as if nobody can see you -- don't depend on their attentiveness for your safety. I still think that good headlights & taillights are necessary, and a brake light is a good idea (and easy to implement with a B&M DIWA generator setup). But, I think that turn signals just aren't necessary.

IMO.

BTW -- for hand signals, at least during the daytime, these would rock:

https://www.fjminc.com/store/products...ves-70-28.html

Bicygnals bike lights are a front and rear set with wireless blinkers. i haven't used them, but i read a positive blog/review. with the headlight and rear light in the center it positions the indicators in the eyes of the driver. plus they clip off and store away easy to deflect the thieves.

the style would be down to personal opinion tho, i guess...

I did actually see a motorist using hand signals years ago. The right turn hand signal is pretty much totally useless. I'm positive that 99% of all drivers wouldn't know what the heck it meant when they saw it, and maybe afterwards some people would realize it was a turn signal. The good news is, motorists have been training each other not to expect turn signals.

drivers don't pay attention to blinkers from other drivers, no driver is ever going to show any regard for blinkers on a bicyclist

stick with hand signals at least they're more conspicuous

You know what would be even better? A bike chain that beeps LOUDLY when someone cuts it. Like a car alarm. Why aren't those out yet!?!?

People still don't get the basic flaw in this discussion. If you use signals... even ideal ones... you are still relying on someone in a ~1ton machine of death understanding and acting on your signal. The only thing that can provide is a false sense of security. Even if it was helpful 99% of the time, it would be that 1% that either killed you or made you end up in the hospital. It's much much better to drive your bike defensively and correctly than to invent some way you can attempt to control an out of control situation.

I wouldn't mind using both.

What I REALLY want is a brake-actuated brake light. Drivers can't tell if your pedals are moving at night, unless they're close enough to illuminate your pedal reflectors and notice them-presuming you even have pedals large enough to accommodate them-which doesn't help for anyone rapidly barreling up behind you, and it takes too long for motorists to register rapid deceleration by depth perception of my running lights.

A brake light isn't going to be misinterpreted by anyone.

Seems like it should be easy enough to rig, at least on MTB style brake levers. You would just use a relay on the brake lever to turn the brake light circuit on when the contacts are separated. (One contact on the brake mount, the other on the lever. You apply the brake and the contact is broken, light turns on.)

I figured a product like this would be widely available, but I haven't seen one. Been considering rigging one up, but my handiwork is always kinda gruesome.

Ankle bands, dude. Reflective ankle bands. $2.00 impulse buy at the checkout counter (at least at my LBS they are.)
I'm not impressed enough with the yellow, white, or tri-colour reflective ones so I've ordered 15' of SOLAS 2" reflective ribbon and I'm making a sash, ankle and arm bands.

Yeah, I have some. I don't feel like they really help, until the driver is on top of me. Maybe straps with blinkenlights, although I don't really enjoy the human christmas tree effect.

I can has brakelights?