Hwo popular is cycling in Europe?
08-24-09 | 02:51 PM
#52
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
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Bikes: Some bikes. Hell, they're all the same, ain't they?
08-24-09 | 03:08 PM
#53
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08-24-09 | 04:51 PM
#55
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Talk to Americans who've been there and to Europe. They all say Montreal is culturally much more reminiscent of the Old World than of their own native cities. Not true for Calgary, Vancouver... Of course, hearing and reading French everywhere you go certainly strengthens that impression. Some Quebecois have even made noise about separating from the rest of Anglo-Dominated Canada, and possibly repatriating with France. (How many American states want to repatriate with England? Or Mexico? )
On bikes there, not only do hoards of riders fill the streets from late spring through fall, the government is opening a new program where you, as a resident or tourist, can purchase a time-credit card, pick up a bike from any of several automated racks, ride it wherever and however long you want (within the paid-for time allowance, up to 1 month), then turn it in at any location in the city with a rental rack, which are going to be placed all over town. After returning the bike, you can then pick up another one at same or different location any time you want. They've even designed a new kind of super-durable bike capable of carrying panniers for errands, and withstanding abuse, uniquely for this program. (This bike rent/share idea originated in Europe.)
)On bikes there, not only do hoards of riders fill the streets from late spring through fall, the government is opening a new program where you, as a resident or tourist, can purchase a time-credit card, pick up a bike from any of several automated racks, ride it wherever and however long you want (within the paid-for time allowance, up to 1 month), then turn it in at any location in the city with a rental rack, which are going to be placed all over town. After returning the bike, you can then pick up another one at same or different location any time you want. They've even designed a new kind of super-durable bike capable of carrying panniers for errands, and withstanding abuse, uniquely for this program. (This bike rent/share idea originated in Europe.)
08-24-09 | 04:54 PM
#56
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Talk to Americans who've been there and to Europe. They all say Montreal is culturally much more reminiscent of the Old World than of their own native cities. Not true for Calgary, Vancouver... Of course, hearing and reading French everywhere you go certainly strengthens that impression. Some Quebecois have even made noise about separating from the rest of Anglo-Dominated Canada, and possibly repatriating with France. (How many American states want to repatriate with England? Or Mexico? )
On bikes there, not only do hoards of riders fill the streets from late spring through fall, the government is opening a new program where you, as a resident or tourist, can purchase a time-credit card, pick up a bike from any of several automated racks, ride it wherever and however long you want (within the paid-for time allowance, up to 1 month), then turn it in at any location in the city with a rental rack, which are going to be placed all over town. After returning the bike, you can then pick up another one at same or different location any time you want. They've even designed a new kind of super-durable bike capable of carrying panniers for errands, and withstanding abuse, uniquely for this program. (This bike rent/share idea originated in Europe.)
)On bikes there, not only do hoards of riders fill the streets from late spring through fall, the government is opening a new program where you, as a resident or tourist, can purchase a time-credit card, pick up a bike from any of several automated racks, ride it wherever and however long you want (within the paid-for time allowance, up to 1 month), then turn it in at any location in the city with a rental rack, which are going to be placed all over town. After returning the bike, you can then pick up another one at same or different location any time you want. They've even designed a new kind of super-durable bike capable of carrying panniers for errands, and withstanding abuse, uniquely for this program. (This bike rent/share idea originated in Europe.)
08-24-09 | 05:35 PM
#57
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My Dad is Estonian. He is actually in Eesti right now visiting. Just thought I'd comment since their aren't to many people from the Baltic...
08-24-09 | 05:45 PM
#58
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From: Kansas
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Google Montreal Old World
e.g.
https://www.azstarnet.com/travel/302085.php
https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractio...al_Quebec.html
e.g.
https://www.azstarnet.com/travel/302085.php
https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractio...al_Quebec.html
08-24-09 | 07:16 PM
#59
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1) F1 is contested with vehicles in which there is no pretense whatsoever to associate it with a vehicle brand that you would actually purchase. Of course you'd never purchase a true NASCAR ride, but you sure as hell know if your favorite driver is in a Dodge, Chevrolet or a Ford. When was the last time you shopped for a McLaren?
2) NASCAR's heritage was from moonshine days when bootleggers would soup up a stock car, hence the association with the major manufacturers. No one would suggest that F1 drivers have ever been just good ol' boy peasants from France.
3) F1 is essentially unrestricted. Anything with four wheels and an engine. NASCAR has so many restrictions now that its resemblance to F1 is only that they are both very popular auto races.
08-24-09 | 07:17 PM
#60
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From: NYC - where bicycles go to die
^^^
We are talking about the popularity of the sport not how people associate to the drivers or how it came about.
Nascar is a wildly popular form of racing in the states more known for team/driver drama than actual racing, IMO. That describes F1 pretty well. You would't buy a nascar vehicle just as you wouldn't buy a f1 vehicle, but cars brands like BMW and Mercedes (Honda? hehe) are certainly represented. You are completely and utterly wrong about restrictions in F1.
I know far more Europeans that follow F1 than those that follow cycling, though cycling is regarded as a serious sport which is definitely different than in most of the US.
What are you disagreeing with? I'm guessing the working-class aspect?
We are talking about the popularity of the sport not how people associate to the drivers or how it came about.
Nascar is a wildly popular form of racing in the states more known for team/driver drama than actual racing, IMO. That describes F1 pretty well. You would't buy a nascar vehicle just as you wouldn't buy a f1 vehicle, but cars brands like BMW and Mercedes (Honda? hehe) are certainly represented. You are completely and utterly wrong about restrictions in F1.
I know far more Europeans that follow F1 than those that follow cycling, though cycling is regarded as a serious sport which is definitely different than in most of the US.
What are you disagreeing with? I'm guessing the working-class aspect?
Last edited by lukasz; 08-24-09 at 07:26 PM.
08-24-09 | 07:21 PM
#61
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Yeah, I thought that was a bizarre statement.
BigTea sounds like another pretender to authoritative knowledge on Euro culture and history when he is in fact ignorant of some pretty basic facts of European sport culture. Like, that F1 is huge, possibly more culturally universal in Europe than NASCAR is in the USA (those who know, is this true?).
The only thing that we've clearly established in this thread so far is that cycling is more popular in Europe than the USA, that its popularity varies enormously from nation to nation, and that it's probably most popular in Belgium and Italy.
BigTea sounds like another pretender to authoritative knowledge on Euro culture and history when he is in fact ignorant of some pretty basic facts of European sport culture. Like, that F1 is huge, possibly more culturally universal in Europe than NASCAR is in the USA (those who know, is this true?).
The only thing that we've clearly established in this thread so far is that cycling is more popular in Europe than the USA, that its popularity varies enormously from nation to nation, and that it's probably most popular in Belgium and Italy.
2) Your second observation would certainly bring laughter from Spaniards and insults regarding your intelligence from the French.
08-24-09 | 07:24 PM
#62
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Hmm...yes, that probably explains the Grand Prix of Monaco, which is Europe's equivalent of Bristol, TN.
08-24-09 | 11:31 PM
#65
Pedal faster not harder.
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Bikes: Ummmm...Cannondale F4000..Ummmmm...Yeti ARC-X Cyclocross..Ummmm...Rocky Mountain Vertex TO with a BionX PL350 Electric Conversion...Ummmmm..Rocky Mountain Cardiac..Ummmm..thats it for now I think. I'd have to go look in the basement to be sure.
08-25-09 | 07:27 AM
#66
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I'm still waiting for my bicycle to arrive here in CO.
I do know that when I go to my house in Italy, on the weekends when I'm out running, I'll see 50-100 guys gathering at the Municipio (Town Hall) in my small town.
I was actually amazed as I always figured people really didn't have much disposable income over there, and to see everyone on $5,000 EU + bikes was a bit surprising to say the least.
I do know that when I go to my house in Italy, on the weekends when I'm out running, I'll see 50-100 guys gathering at the Municipio (Town Hall) in my small town.
I was actually amazed as I always figured people really didn't have much disposable income over there, and to see everyone on $5,000 EU + bikes was a bit surprising to say the least.
08-25-09 | 07:41 AM
#67
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Was just listening to an npr podcast on how (utilitarian) cycling in spain is not so popular...
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=111273331
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=111273331
08-25-09 | 08:00 AM
#68
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From: NYC - where bicycles go to die
1) My comment had nothing to do with the comparitve popularity of F1 and NASCAR. It was about the similarity of cycling's heritage with that of NASCAR and the cultural beginnings of both. By the way, I'm not the first person to make that observation.
2) Your second observation would certainly bring laughter from Spaniards and insults regarding your intelligence from the French.
2) Your second observation would certainly bring laughter from Spaniards and insults regarding your intelligence from the French.
2) I know this thread is all about stereotypes but you just took things to a new level. Oh, those snooty French!
Cycling is probably bigger than F1 with middle/working class people in the low countries. I've only spent a few weeks there and it was all in big cities so I can't really form an opinion.
btw, I quickly looked up the manufacturers currently represented in F1: BMW, Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault, Toyota. Pretty attainable on all counts except Ferrari, and even an older low-tier Ferrari is attainable for most people if they were into cars. Not that it really matters in terms of advertising for the company because you can buy everything from pens to underwear to perfume with Ferrari branding.
Last edited by lukasz; 08-25-09 at 08:07 AM.
08-25-09 | 08:39 AM
#69
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btw, I quickly looked up the manufacturers currently represented in F1: BMW, Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault, Toyota. Pretty attainable on all counts except Ferrari, and even an older low-tier Ferrari is attainable for most people if they were into cars. Not that it really matters in terms of advertising for the company because you can buy everything from pens to underwear to perfume with Ferrari branding.
08-25-09 | 09:42 AM
#70
Just for fun...
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You missed my point.
1) F1 is contested with vehicles in which there is no pretense whatsoever to associate it with a vehicle brand that you would actually purchase. Of course you'd never purchase a true NASCAR ride, but you sure as hell know if your favorite driver is in a Dodge, Chevrolet or a Ford. When was the last time you shopped for a McLaren?
2) NASCAR's heritage was from moonshine days when bootleggers would soup up a stock car, hence the association with the major manufacturers. No one would suggest that F1 drivers have ever been just good ol' boy peasants from France.
3) F1 is essentially unrestricted. Anything with four wheels and an engine. NASCAR has so many restrictions now that its resemblance to F1 is only that they are both very popular auto races.
1) F1 is contested with vehicles in which there is no pretense whatsoever to associate it with a vehicle brand that you would actually purchase. Of course you'd never purchase a true NASCAR ride, but you sure as hell know if your favorite driver is in a Dodge, Chevrolet or a Ford. When was the last time you shopped for a McLaren?
2) NASCAR's heritage was from moonshine days when bootleggers would soup up a stock car, hence the association with the major manufacturers. No one would suggest that F1 drivers have ever been just good ol' boy peasants from France.
3) F1 is essentially unrestricted. Anything with four wheels and an engine. NASCAR has so many restrictions now that its resemblance to F1 is only that they are both very popular auto races.
1. You're kidding right? Toyota, Renault, BMW, Honda, Mercedes all in F1 as example as primary team sponsors. I suspect they participate to sell their brands...
3. F1 (or Formula 1) is just like NASCAR - rules bound. 'The "formula" in the name refers to a set of rules to which all participants and cars must comply'
08-25-09 | 10:27 AM
#71
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From: Portland, OR
3) F1 is essentially unrestricted. Anything with four wheels and an engine. NASCAR has so many restrictions now that its resemblance to F1 is only that they are both very popular auto races.
Go back to talking about NASCAR and how it relates to bicycle racing in europe.
08-25-09 | 10:27 AM
#72
I read more than post
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From: Luxembourg
I live in Europe and I am originally from the US so I can offer a comment to the OP's original point.
Cycling in Europe is "huge" but different countries "treat" it differently.
Lux/Belgium and to a degree the Netherlands - cycling is something of a national sport. Cyclo-cross fills out the gaps left by the winter in the Road cycling calendars. Most schools/communes have a team and many kids grow up riding/racing for a team.
These are smaller countries, so you get less rich folk/poor folk competition. Citizens are burgers and everyone pretty much tends to treat people the same so it really comes down to who you know who is successful in the sport. Lux for instance EVERYONE loves cycling as everyone pretty much knows at least one of the pros (Lux has an amazingly disproportional level of success in Pro ranks).
Italy, Spain - true cycling is a bit more blue collar. Possibly because other, larger and more "upscale" alternatives exist? Not sure. But both have storied histories of cycling. Same for Germanic and Scandanavian countries. Even still, most folks in those countries are aware of cycling as a sport about as much as people in the US follow ice hockey. By that I mean cycling has a diverse following (everyone in the US seems to know something about the nearby hockey team) but not the large population following that NASCAR has (isn't it the # 1 watched sport in the US now?). Nascar equivalents in Europe are motorcross and F1 - both are very popular (F1 being a bit more popular with white collar than blue collar people by the way).
As for "utilitarian" cycling - ironically my experience is that the MORE money a country has the more people appear to use cycles as vehicles. Better infrastructure, more disposable income - I'm not sure why. I can say I've ridden in Barcelona and was wasted because of the stress. Same for Milan and Florence. But Paris, Amsterdam and even London are pretty easy cities to ride in. Luxembourg is sublime. PS I grew up in NYC and come from Boston - cycling in those places is much better than Milan, Florence and Barcelona in my experiences to offer a comparison. Only upside is that it is easier to "make it out" of European cities -- they tend to have suburban and rural sections that are very close and relatively easily accessed.
But utilitarian cycling is also prevelant in many countries that don't seem cycling friendly (Spain for instance) but moreso in the country side where people don't have lots of cars and invest in farming apparatus - not always easy to take a tractor to the butcher and baker ...
Aside - I was shocked at how many people cycle to work in Stockholm given the weather/lack of sunlight. Not as prevalent as Amsterdam but WOW - those folks are dedicated!!
DISCLAIMER - you cannot tell me I am wrong as these are my observations. I saw them and you didn't so you can't tell me I'm wrong. You can ask my WHY I think the way I do - so long as you are civilized about it. Otherwise - read another thread ...
Cycling in Europe is "huge" but different countries "treat" it differently.
Lux/Belgium and to a degree the Netherlands - cycling is something of a national sport. Cyclo-cross fills out the gaps left by the winter in the Road cycling calendars. Most schools/communes have a team and many kids grow up riding/racing for a team.
These are smaller countries, so you get less rich folk/poor folk competition. Citizens are burgers and everyone pretty much tends to treat people the same so it really comes down to who you know who is successful in the sport. Lux for instance EVERYONE loves cycling as everyone pretty much knows at least one of the pros (Lux has an amazingly disproportional level of success in Pro ranks).
Italy, Spain - true cycling is a bit more blue collar. Possibly because other, larger and more "upscale" alternatives exist? Not sure. But both have storied histories of cycling. Same for Germanic and Scandanavian countries. Even still, most folks in those countries are aware of cycling as a sport about as much as people in the US follow ice hockey. By that I mean cycling has a diverse following (everyone in the US seems to know something about the nearby hockey team) but not the large population following that NASCAR has (isn't it the # 1 watched sport in the US now?). Nascar equivalents in Europe are motorcross and F1 - both are very popular (F1 being a bit more popular with white collar than blue collar people by the way).
As for "utilitarian" cycling - ironically my experience is that the MORE money a country has the more people appear to use cycles as vehicles. Better infrastructure, more disposable income - I'm not sure why. I can say I've ridden in Barcelona and was wasted because of the stress. Same for Milan and Florence. But Paris, Amsterdam and even London are pretty easy cities to ride in. Luxembourg is sublime. PS I grew up in NYC and come from Boston - cycling in those places is much better than Milan, Florence and Barcelona in my experiences to offer a comparison. Only upside is that it is easier to "make it out" of European cities -- they tend to have suburban and rural sections that are very close and relatively easily accessed.
But utilitarian cycling is also prevelant in many countries that don't seem cycling friendly (Spain for instance) but moreso in the country side where people don't have lots of cars and invest in farming apparatus - not always easy to take a tractor to the butcher and baker ...
Aside - I was shocked at how many people cycle to work in Stockholm given the weather/lack of sunlight. Not as prevalent as Amsterdam but WOW - those folks are dedicated!!
DISCLAIMER - you cannot tell me I am wrong as these are my observations. I saw them and you didn't so you can't tell me I'm wrong. You can ask my WHY I think the way I do - so long as you are civilized about it. Otherwise - read another thread ...
08-25-09 | 11:43 AM
#73
.
Joined: Jan 2006
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I live in Europe and I am originally from the US so I can offer a comment to the OP's original point.
Cycling in Europe is "huge" but different countries "treat" it differently.
Lux/Belgium and to a degree the Netherlands - cycling is something of a national sport. Cyclo-cross fills out the gaps left by the winter in the Road cycling calendars. Most schools/communes have a team and many kids grow up riding/racing for a team.
These are smaller countries, so you get less rich folk/poor folk competition. Citizens are burgers and everyone pretty much tends to treat people the same so it really comes down to who you know who is successful in the sport. Lux for instance EVERYONE loves cycling as everyone pretty much knows at least one of the pros (Lux has an amazingly disproportional level of success in Pro ranks).
Italy, Spain - true cycling is a bit more blue collar. Possibly because other, larger and more "upscale" alternatives exist? Not sure. But both have storied histories of cycling. Same for Germanic and Scandanavian countries. Even still, most folks in those countries are aware of cycling as a sport about as much as people in the US follow ice hockey. By that I mean cycling has a diverse following (everyone in the US seems to know something about the nearby hockey team) but not the large population following that NASCAR has (isn't it the # 1 watched sport in the US now?). Nascar equivalents in Europe are motorcross and F1 - both are very popular (F1 being a bit more popular with white collar than blue collar people by the way).
As for "utilitarian" cycling - ironically my experience is that the MORE money a country has the more people appear to use cycles as vehicles. Better infrastructure, more disposable income - I'm not sure why. I can say I've ridden in Barcelona and was wasted because of the stress. Same for Milan and Florence. But Paris, Amsterdam and even London are pretty easy cities to ride in. Luxembourg is sublime. PS I grew up in NYC and come from Boston - cycling in those places is much better than Milan, Florence and Barcelona in my experiences to offer a comparison. Only upside is that it is easier to "make it out" of European cities -- they tend to have suburban and rural sections that are very close and relatively easily accessed.
But utilitarian cycling is also prevelant in many countries that don't seem cycling friendly (Spain for instance) but moreso in the country side where people don't have lots of cars and invest in farming apparatus - not always easy to take a tractor to the butcher and baker ...
Aside - I was shocked at how many people cycle to work in Stockholm given the weather/lack of sunlight. Not as prevalent as Amsterdam but WOW - those folks are dedicated!!
DISCLAIMER - you cannot tell me I am wrong as these are my observations. I saw them and you didn't so you can't tell me I'm wrong. You can ask my WHY I think the way I do - so long as you are civilized about it. Otherwise - read another thread ...
Cycling in Europe is "huge" but different countries "treat" it differently.
Lux/Belgium and to a degree the Netherlands - cycling is something of a national sport. Cyclo-cross fills out the gaps left by the winter in the Road cycling calendars. Most schools/communes have a team and many kids grow up riding/racing for a team.
These are smaller countries, so you get less rich folk/poor folk competition. Citizens are burgers and everyone pretty much tends to treat people the same so it really comes down to who you know who is successful in the sport. Lux for instance EVERYONE loves cycling as everyone pretty much knows at least one of the pros (Lux has an amazingly disproportional level of success in Pro ranks).
Italy, Spain - true cycling is a bit more blue collar. Possibly because other, larger and more "upscale" alternatives exist? Not sure. But both have storied histories of cycling. Same for Germanic and Scandanavian countries. Even still, most folks in those countries are aware of cycling as a sport about as much as people in the US follow ice hockey. By that I mean cycling has a diverse following (everyone in the US seems to know something about the nearby hockey team) but not the large population following that NASCAR has (isn't it the # 1 watched sport in the US now?). Nascar equivalents in Europe are motorcross and F1 - both are very popular (F1 being a bit more popular with white collar than blue collar people by the way).
As for "utilitarian" cycling - ironically my experience is that the MORE money a country has the more people appear to use cycles as vehicles. Better infrastructure, more disposable income - I'm not sure why. I can say I've ridden in Barcelona and was wasted because of the stress. Same for Milan and Florence. But Paris, Amsterdam and even London are pretty easy cities to ride in. Luxembourg is sublime. PS I grew up in NYC and come from Boston - cycling in those places is much better than Milan, Florence and Barcelona in my experiences to offer a comparison. Only upside is that it is easier to "make it out" of European cities -- they tend to have suburban and rural sections that are very close and relatively easily accessed.
But utilitarian cycling is also prevelant in many countries that don't seem cycling friendly (Spain for instance) but moreso in the country side where people don't have lots of cars and invest in farming apparatus - not always easy to take a tractor to the butcher and baker ...
Aside - I was shocked at how many people cycle to work in Stockholm given the weather/lack of sunlight. Not as prevalent as Amsterdam but WOW - those folks are dedicated!!
DISCLAIMER - you cannot tell me I am wrong as these are my observations. I saw them and you didn't so you can't tell me I'm wrong. You can ask my WHY I think the way I do - so long as you are civilized about it. Otherwise - read another thread ...
08-25-09 | 12:26 PM
#75
The Truth
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Cycling is the new hurling.
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