lisitsa

I read an article claiming a test performed in Japan where on a packed trail, a suspension bike of the same build as a no suspension bike performed faster. The results showed that the DS bike provided less shock and thus didn't fatigue the riders muscles as much. It said that improvements in suspension design had made DS bikes nearly as efficient as no suspension bikes.

I was always convinced to not touch suspension with a ten foot pole, in fact I'm usually on the roadie forum, but this article has changed my way of thinking.

Feltup

I read an article that said the sun revolved around the earth.

It might be true on trail areas that are level or downhill, but never up.

LowCel 

I read the same article somewhere. I have mixed feelings about the results though. IMO it depends on how "smooth", how "long", and who the sponsors of the test were.

Dannihilator

It also depends on the riders as well.

frankiee

Personally I guess that in the future all bikes would be full suspension of different types and capabilities.
For the fatigue factor and also the stability issue.
I would never think of having a auto with no suspension or a motor bike.
The issues lie in weight and pedel bob.
With so many bikes having suspension nowdays they are being mass produced and I think this will be the key to improved technology.
Can you imagine riding a dirt bike on a trail going fast with no suspension.
Even Indy cars sacrifice weight for a suspension.
Yes. I can see in my mind of suspension for bikes being a lot smaller and more complex it the future.

Big Tommy C

Depending on the terrain, it can indeed be faster when climbing.

On a full suspension, on climbs covered with rocks and roots, you can stay seated and spin your way quickly up a hill. Less fatigue and more speed, even though it's heavier.

...of course, that's a lightweight full suspension bike that pedals well, not a DH bike.

cryptid01

This is hardly a revolutionary concept. For anything but straight fireroad climbing, dual suspension lets you ride further, faster, easier.

Dannihilator

Hardtails will always have a place. For dirt jumping, hardtails are king. While there are FS DJ specific bikes, they don't quite have the versatiliy of a hardtail.

Maelstrom 

Nor are the as much fun. I hate jumping on a dually.

jim-bob

If anyone was timing my rides, being faster might matter. I find full rigid more fun, though.

KleinMp99

The only benefit to a rigid bike on uphills would be the weight, and I am thinking 20 pound rigid vs 30 pound fs. A full suspension, dual suspension, or "double suspension" bike will kill a rigid bike on a rough uphill, the rear suspension keeps the rear wheel on the ground instead of letting it bounce all over. But your post was good, mr. expert.

zx108

i have very little bounce on my full suspension and i keep it real soft. but as klein said were i am there are an abundance of rocks, roots, old fallen trees, and stuff like that. so even on the uphills the suspension helps. if you dont have terrain like that, why even get a full suspension?

didnt specialized solve this problem with the epic

Feltup

Keep telling yourself you "need" suspension to "climb" rooty and rocky sections.
You don't. It usually just covers up the riders poor ability at climbing. Now on downhills FS is going to whip a rigid bike all day long. Learn to get your weight over the rear wheel and stop using your suspension as a crutch. I of course ride rigid SS so I am probably just a better rider than most.

PS- If you read the first post it said "PACKED". So what I posted is right on.

mtnbiker66

I'm sure you are.Any chance of you coming over the mountian to Pisgah and giving us some riding lessons?I'm sure a whole group would show up to learn from a master such as yourself.

Feltup

How about I meet you half way? I live in Knoxville TN and maybe we could find a location that would give me the trails needed to out climb you? Me and a couple of riding buddies are planning a long weekend trip somewhere when fall starts. Pisgah was actually one of the places we are thinking of going. I am sure we could learn a couple of things about proper FS climbing from ya.

mtnbiker66

If you come to Pisgah in the fall come after Oct 15, thats when the seasonal trails open. I'm not the one crowing about how great I am. If you out climb me you still won't have anything to brag about.I just thought that someone who is as good as you could really teach us a thing or two.I don't need to go anywhere else to ride,I think we have some of the best riding anywhere.

norcodirtjumper

Same here I took my friends Stinky down a dirtjumping course, I hated it. It felt like i slowed down as soon as I got to the base of the jump.

Feltup

I agree, Pisgah has some of the best trails I have been on. I don't want to get into a pissing contest. I made a comment on how I feel about FS vs. FR. I am also a pretty good rider, so I posted it.

mtnbiker66

I'm just playing anyway. I don't take anything on these forums seriously. I would say there are lots of good riders on here. When you come over you may want to check out Dupont, I rode my SS there today. Holla when you come over. Back to the FS thing,my back sometimes acts up so FS really helps on long rides.

chris_pnoy

I think in the future, bikes will have three shock absorbers. The front fork, and two in the back. One of them for lighter trails and the other for full travel really long suspenion stuff. They should be able to dial them in right so that you get the best performance for whatever terrain you're doing.


Untill then though, I think FS's are faster on most terrain while HT's are def. better at uphills.

Maelstrom 

They tried that. Holy expensive and heavy. I think they will begin to get a better systems for controlling high and low speed compression and rebound. Honestly, I think manitou is on the right track (with the rear suspension only)

75RaleighGP

Sure, motorcycles have suspension now, but they didn't initially. Fifty years ago mototcycle racers were raising the exact same arguements we're talking about here.

The difference is, though, that the disadvantages of suspension (added weight and inefficient power transfer) didn't matter as much as motorcycles began to develop more power. When you've got power to spare, it just doesn't matter if you're hauling a few extra pounds and you can't get all that power to the ground.

So until evolution makes us all considerably more powerful, there is going to be a place for hardtails.

Maelstrom 

Also the power from an engine, I would think, would be a lot more linear than the movement of someone pedalling. Making suspension design for bikes far more complex than a motorcycle.

BTW, I believe there is a place for both, based on conditions and ride style. I am not for one or the other.

dirtyamerican

It's true that vibration of muscle tissue will cause fatigue sooner. But a bigger factor to consider is that full suspension will rob a lot more of your power from loss of pedal efficiency than muscle fatigue from vibration will vs. hardtail riding. If you are riding a packed trail, you don't need suspension, it's already smooth. This is a test that applies to a limited amount of riding environments and applications. What really matters is your riding style and the specific places you ride...that will then decide which bike (fs or ht) is "faster".

Examples:

bmx racing: ht will be much faster
DH riding: fs will kill a ht on a real dh trail
climbing: ht is best
trials: you just can't do on a fs bike.

Dannihilator

Unless the person riding that hardtail is really intelligent to find the line or ballsy enough to go full out through the same line that the FS bike is taking. I'm one of those ballsy enough to go at something full out, I'm just lucky enough that I can handle my hardtail at higher speeds.

With the gravity set, the best proving ground with hardtail vs full suspension is 4x and Dual Slalom where it's a 50-50 mix. The overall leader of the World Cup races a hardtail, same with the second place person overall. Point is it all depends on the rider, I know that I'm not fast on a full suspension rig, but I feel at home on a hardtail and I can book on the hardtail.