ovoleg

Guys, I have a few questions...

I am in need of some climbing training. I am not bad but definately not good . I can hold my own on most flat sections, except when it starts hiking up...I seem to start getting dropped.

I haven't had to dismount or walk up the hill since I got my Lemond.

I notice that the faster guys only have one ring in the front(assuming its a 50-52) and probably the rear going up as far as 27.

My legs give out much faster than my lungs/heart. I can go up the shorter ones no problem, but the longer it gets, the burn overtakes me.

So the question comes down to: Do I start riding in the 42/52 and try to climb out of the saddle all the way up?

Thanks. I will have more training time in the next month so I can ride more through the week. I am trying to get a plan going on how I can improve.

Thanks all.

feltdude

Everyone has different ideas on technique, big gear/small gear, standing/sitting.. but really the one thing everyone will agree on is that the way to get better at climbing is to climb. Try to plan your training rides around hills if you can, and if that's not possible work a day or two of hill repeats into your training.

jschen

Since you're complaining about legs before heart/lungs, gear down! Ride the triple that you have. There's no shame in doing so. Power = torque x cadence. You can generate as much force (and thus torque) as you want, and it does you no good unless the pedals are moving around at a reasonable clip--that reasonable rate being different for different people and even for different climbing positions. You should learn to climb in different positions (for me, the major ones being seated with hands on hoods, seated with hands on tops, and standing with hands on hoods) and become familiar with how quickly you fatigue in each position and how much power you can generate (both sustained and maximum) in each position.

There's no substitute for real practice on real hills. All different lengths, all different grades. Different lengths and grades of hills place different demands on you and require different approaches. And some things, like reading the terrain or learning to rotate through different climbing positions to rotate through different muscle groups, don't really make sense in any simulated environment.

Practice, practice, practice. No amount of discussion can substitute for practice.

cmcenroe

Try lots of things. Some people like sitting and spinning, some people like standing and tossing their body weight around and using their arms. Try different hand positions. I like the leverage of the drops and standing (right now). Fool around with gears too. Get a 39 front chainring instead of the 42 and climb with that for a while. Get a triple. Have fun!

jschen

Also, I'd suggest looking up some old climbing threads. There's quite a bit of good advice spread throughout this forum. There's no shortage of discussions about climbing. There's also ones on very specific topics, like how to stand and climb (I can think offhand of one topic that just discussed that and that led to my being able to do so effectively). Or even narrower topics, like the choice of cadence when standing and climbing.

bitingduck

I guess the first question is who are you riding with/what kind of rides are these? Are you talking about Cat 2 road race climbers or strong rec riders?

If your legs are burning you need to be in a smaller gear. If you're blowing up, you can use a bigger gear to save your lungs. It sometimes helps to alternate between two adjacent cogs-- I sometimes spin in the saddle and then shift one cog up (i.e. one tooth smaller) and stand for a bit, then sit back down and downshift.

Unless you have a 42 in front for a particular reason, if you're riding hills/mountains in SoCal you should probably have a 39, and if you have a triple go ahead and use it. You also might want a 27 in back.

Climbing well takes practice, and getting used to how your body works on long climbs and what hurts more or less. You can also improve your climbing by improving your general fitness-- I didn't do much climbing for the last year, but did a lot of hard intervals and some long road rides, and then did some climbing and was pretty strong. The other thing to remember is that it won't ever really get any easier-- you'll just go faster.

ovoleg

Dunno but these guys are fast...

I've never been in a cat 2(I tried a cat 5 and I got annoyed by all the jerks pushing and elbowing...I wont be racing again)

I am safe to say that I have no chance vs them My goal is not to smoke them in 1 week. I need to practice so I can get up to speed. Like I said, I am not a slow ass...But I can't keep up with the fast guys. Would anyone suggest large ring out of the saddle climbs?

Riding the granny gear or the 30 isn't going to make me any faster...I already figured that out

ovoleg

the gear inch from 42 to 39 on the front will not make any difference...

A 27 in the back will make much more of a drastic difference. I already have low enough gearing that I can tackle any mountain around me. I need to improve my climbing skill. I think I am going to try climbing out of the saddle on the VERY long climbs. I'll see how that works for me. I'm more of a sit down/spin person on the long and out of the saddle large ring on the short.

I'll see if I can practice sustaining the speed in the 52/23

ovoleg

Have one, useless IMHO after you get past the newbie riding stage

ovoleg

Usually 50+ rides but it wont matter. I feel about the same after 50mi as I do starting out(in comparison to hills).

I am going to try climbing with 52/25//52/23 or 42/15ish depending on how the legs feel...I'll let you guys know next week on how it works out.

EURO

There is no technique.

Riding uphill is just your body using power to overcome forces, the same as riding on the flat. Look at pro riders, and you'll see a million different gearing choices, positions and 'techniques'

The absolute number one thing to do is loose weight. The next thing to do is make you heart and lungs and legs stronger with training.

Everything else you read here is rubbish.


Sounds like you need stronger legs, or less body weight so the legs don't have to work as hard.

patentcad

What he said.

Plus try to work on your SITTING climbing technique. You get out of the saddle and *BOOM* your HR goes up 10 beats. But if your legs are burning it sounds like you need less weight and more strength.

Socalcycling

So I guess your still on your baby ring a lot then uh?

Socalcycling

Where in the hell did you ever race in any race? Your so full of it. So anyone who has raced or is racing Ovopose just called you a ***.

Socalcycling

Except for the ones that go up and don't you mean high enough gearing******************************???

askrom

I always thought that riding out of the saddle, while allowing a sudden burst of power, pretty much wrecks your spinning efficiency. If you're trying to get over a brief steep spot without shifting, or if you are in a sprint, getting out of the saddle makes sense. But otherwise it seems like riding out of the saddle for a long climb is a baaad idea. I've always been a pretty good climber, and I've always found that sitting down and being patient and steady will do the trick, just like on a flat -- but harder.

My best bits of advice for climbing: 1) Increase your tolerance for brief surges of atheletic pain, and 2) Become psychologically confident that when the climb is over, no matter how tired and pained you feel, it's pretty likely that you will fully recover very quickly -- even within a few seconds after the peak of the hill. I think a lot of riders "chicken out" on hills, fearing that they're going to completely run out of energy, dropping to a granny gear too early -- and not realizing that they really do have it in them to finish the job at a decent pace and recover afterwards.

lrzipris

There's some wisdom in this remark. I'm a mediocre climber because I have problems shifting: I often "spin out" too early, leaving no power to get up the hill with any speed. That is, I'm still learning my optimum gearing and shifting patterns.

The other problem I have is simply the willpower to keep my cadence: when a hill begins to get to me, I don't always keep up my cadence, such as it is at that point, and I slow down. Then I have to chastise myself to "keep the pedals turning!" Sometimes climbing is, for me, just a matter of being willing to do the work.

EURO

More 'technique' guff...

alison_in_oh

I got some good info in this thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/109612-climbing-tips-tricks.html

Just FYI, but "***" is incredibly offensive terminology in my book. I sure wish you wouldn't use it. If you have to be derogatory about people who, like, actually know how to race, perhaps you could use a term descriptive of their personalities ("jerks" perhaps?) instead.

patentcad

Euro's right on this one. Technique? Some I suppose, but mostly aerobic snot. Which is essentially power to weight ratio and HR efficiency. Eat less, ride more. And of course, ride more hills.

In the end you can improve as a climber - but few aspects of cycling are as tied to your natural abilities. So try your best, but don't be crushed if you can't hang with the mtn. goats. That doesn't mean it's not possible to get MUCH better. But it's not easy. And all the 'climbing tips' in the world don't mean too much, sorry to say.

Squint

It's very simple...maximize power:body mass for the duration of the climb.

You want to climb like Pantani or Lance? Emulate their power:weight ratio first and their technique second.

You might have the best technique in the world but you'll always get beaten by someone with a better power:weight ratio and that comes from physiology, not technique. I live near a long and popular climb so I see all kinds of strange things. I see people in and out of the saddle and can hear their tires scrubbing on the pavement from far away. Yet despite their Academy Award-winning performance, it only takes 250W to keep up with them.

I just sit and spin and keep an eye on my powermeter. Once you set your weight to <150 and power to >300, climbing the typical mountain will feel like riding on flat terrain.

I only climb once a week during warmer weather. I focus on intervals that increase threshold power, usually done at lower altitudes and flatter terrain. Most people train for climbing by simply doing long rides in the mountains at relatively low intensities thinking that simply spending time on a mountain will make them good at climbing.

I think the appeal of technique is that it offers the promise of a quick fix whereas the constant dieting and hours of painful intervals each week that it takes to become a better climber does not.

alison_in_oh

I think y'all are missing the point. When someone of moderate strength goes out with those who are stronger, it makes sense to conserve energy and optimize performance given what they're dealing with: a current, perhaps mediocre, weight and level of training.

Improvement comes over time, but if you are disheartened every time you hit a hill because you are pounding a high gear, breathing poorly, and straining to reach the top, then you might be more likely to *avoid* hills in training than someone who concentrates on her breathing, spins as easily as possible, keeps her upper body relaxed, and pedals through and over the top.

Just sayin'.

Mo'Phat

ovoleg - for every uphill, there's a downhill. Cherish the fact that when gravity takes over, you can blow by the featherweights on the descent. On my ride Saturday, I was dropped on the climb (only about 200 yds on a 7 mile ascent) but I caught up and passed everybody within a mile on the descent and finished the hill at least 1/2 mile ahead.

For what it's worth; I was in 39/25 and the 'better' climbers (the 150 lb'ers [I'm 190]) were in 39/21 and just spinning away. Keep at the hills, pedal in circles (not stomping down all the time), utilize every leg muscle you can, and regulate your breathing. It'll happen.

iamtim

When I climb I've been doing a lot of out-of-seating in my middle chainring (I have a triple) and somewhere in the middle of my SRAM 8 speed cassette. Sorry, don't know the numbers.

I tried granny-gear spinning, but it wasn't for me.

That said...


(sic). As much as I normally giggle at some of the stuff that EURO throws out around here, he's spot on with this one. With every pound I lose each hill gets easier, and I've lost a bunch of poundage so far via cycling.

jschen

Agreed. Someone who tells you that climbing technique doesn't matter either already has their technique nailed down or doesn't climb big stuff. For example, I generally respect Euro's posts on climbing a lot. He stands and mashes. That's his technique, and he's perfected it. terrymorse is also an excellent climber on these boards. He sits and spins more. That's his technique, and he's perfected it. Both are confident in their technique to the point where it feels natural and perhaps it feels like there's no technique involved, but that's because both have worked very hard on it. I'm sure both have perfected the subtle points of reading the terrain and the wind and metering out effort accordingly.

It also is not necessarily true that riding up in a granny ring will make you slower. If your cadence bogs down too much (how much is too much depends on a rider's power (both sustained and maximum) vs cadence curve), you will be slower than you would be in a lower gear. If this weren't true, we'd all ride a 68-10 all the time so that we never run out of gearing going downhill and go as fast as possible going uphill.