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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Hill climbing.... hints?

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Old 03-30-06, 10:21 AM
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Hill climbing.... hints?

Well i've been riding for a few weeks now, mostly straight roads with minimal hills. My current technique is to try to "muscle my way" meaning i dont really spin, but use lots of effort instead (not sure how to phrase this).... is this bad?


I am planning to do the rosarito to ensenada fun bike race (50 miles)..

This first part of the course is mostly flat with some rolling hills... then a hill that towers 800 feet above the valley floor. The climb is 2 miles long and a 7.5% grade.... from there a series of small hills.


So how would you train for this, other than the obvious or riding hills as much as possible?

Should i be trying to spin more and use less force? or?


Thanks in advance

-Victor
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Old 03-30-06, 10:38 AM
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Spinning does help. A jerky motion wastes a lot of energy. A 2 mile 7% grade should not be a big deal for a racer (even a very amateur one). Just climbing the hill a few times (or a few dozen times) will make you a lot more comfortable with it.
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Old 03-30-06, 10:43 AM
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I live right under a steep hill and the commute to work is over some huge arch bridges and hills, so eitherway I've had little choice but to climb in order to get out.

From what I've learn't you need both. What you're doing is grinding up the hills, problem with this is it is not highly efficient and your upper body will start to tyre quickly. I also notice when I push it too hard my muscles stiffen up and this slows my overall average speed. I think for training purposes you need to do both but during a steady page or trip its best to concentrate on breathing and better cadence to maintain a good average and not busting your tank.

For power training I got a higher gear and try to lift off for a bit standing up then get back on the saddle and maintain good crank revs to keep the average speed. When I'm trying to beat the clock I pace and stay relaxed up the hill, I don't gear too high and concentrate on quick cycles. In some hills that I've stood up and powered up I lost a lot of energy due to the upper body doing a bit of work at average 12-14km. At relaxed quick cycles I managed the same incline at 19-22km.

I think if the hill is in the last section of the race, then start with a good cadence, pace on lower gears then power up near the mid to end of the climb. If its in the middle or start then staying relaxed and concentrating on slowly gaining average to conserve energy for the later stage.
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Old 03-30-06, 11:02 AM
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For rosarito it is a very good idea to practice spinning and maintaining a slow pace on a long hill. To get extreme is is even worth practicing restarting from a dead stop on a hill.

Why?

Because the ride is a zoo. A fun well supported zoo, but still a zoo. You may well find yourself surrounded by slow riders barely making it up the hill (or may not). But be ready to bob and weave up the hill.

Also be mentally ready. The big hill is NOT one solid climb. It is one long climb followed by a flatish section then a bit more climbing. The end of the first part MUST be the end of the climb, but it isn't. The second climbing section actually is not very long. But is you go mentally too far into the "I'm over the top" mode it can take the heart out of you when you see the next climb (and start wondering if it is really the top).

Oh and it can get pertty hot, drink, and not beer until the ride is over.

Have fun.
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Old 03-30-06, 11:07 AM
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Shift before you have to.
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Old 03-30-06, 11:23 AM
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IMHO, if you can practise getting a feel for when you hit your lactate threshold, you can determine the fastest speed or the highest amount of power that you can apply over time for a climb without your legs and arms "rig'ing up" (as in rigor mortis). Some folks use a heart rate monitor to get a feel for what heart rate this may occur, some use a powermeter. Others use a rating of perceived effort.
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Old 03-30-06, 11:27 AM
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Spin. And spin some more. I found shifting just before you need the gear works best for me. This takes practice. YMMV...
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Old 03-30-06, 12:20 PM
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ahh okay i will try that.... i did this race in september, but with very minimal "training" and i must say that first hill killed me. I was able to do the hill without getting off, but the following hills were the problem. In the end the 50 miles took me 3 hours and 45mins, so i hope to be around 3 hours this time.




Originally Posted by Keith99
For rosarito it is a very good idea to practice spinning and maintaining a slow pace on a long hill. To get extreme is is even worth practicing restarting from a dead stop on a hill.

Why?

Because the ride is a zoo. A fun well supported zoo, but still a zoo. You may well find yourself surrounded by slow riders barely making it up the hill (or may not). But be ready to bob and weave up the hill.

Also be mentally ready. The big hill is NOT one solid climb. It is one long climb followed by a flatish section then a bit more climbing. The end of the first part MUST be the end of the climb, but it isn't. The second climbing section actually is not very long. But is you go mentally too far into the "I'm over the top" mode it can take the heart out of you when you see the next climb (and start wondering if it is really the top).

Oh and it can get pertty hot, drink, and not beer until the ride is over.

Have fun.
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Old 03-30-06, 12:50 PM
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As a general rule, spin up hills in lower gear and keep the cadence high (80+). Check this out for some decent tips:

https://www.cptips.com/tech.htm
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Old 03-30-06, 12:54 PM
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Just don't be the kid from Indiana who'd "never rode a hill before!" when we took him to a 27 mile, 6000 foot assent up mount lemon in az.

He had aero bars!

it wasn't pretty...
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Old 03-30-06, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by blue_nose
As a general rule, spin up hills in lower gear and keep the cadence high (80+). Check this out for some decent tips:

https://www.cptips.com/tech.htm

From your very same cptips:

The RPE scale

The RPE scale ranges from 6 to 20*, and includes a literal description for each level of exercise intensity. It was designed so adding a 0 to the level of exertion would give a rough estimate of your heart rate i.e. if you were resting (a 6 on the scale) your heart rate would be in the neighborhood of 60. Although RPE isn’t accurate enough for detailed physiologic studies, research has demonstrated an amazingly high correlation for any individual from day to day. In other words if you felt you were exercising at a 13 (somewhat hard) on two different days, and checked your heart rate, it would be quite similar.

How can you use the RPE scale? First familiarize yourself with the levels. Then, using a treadmill or wind trainer, rate your own level of exertion BEFORE you check your pulse rate. With a little practice you will find that you will be amazingly accurate in predicting your heart rate. At that point you can use your own RPE instead of a heart rate monitor to monitor the intensity of the day’s workout.

In addition,

- Learn during interval training. Use a heart monitor that calculates average HR. See how much intensity you can maintain for various durations. Focus on how these effort levels feel. Then compare your perceived exertion to your average HR.
- Learn on group rides. Note how the adrenaline from towing a group makes you sometimes exceed a pace you can sustain.
- Learn in time trials. Notice how you almost always go faster in the first third of the race than you can sustain in the final third. Find your own "sweet spot" of effort that's sustainable for about an hour.

RPE can change as fitness improves and with factors such as hydration, carbohydrate status, and ambient temperature. So recalibrate your own RPE scale regularly during the season if you are using this tool in your training. A heart rate monitor or a watts meter are important tools. But when it matters most, your carefully honed self-perceived exertion level is still the best monitor ever created.

* RPE scale
6 - resting
7 - very, very light
9 - very light
11 - fairly light
13 - somewhat hard
15 - hard
17 - very hard
19 - very, very hard

Training using PE
Found on Roadbikerider.com:

Question: I want to improve my power at lactate threshold (LT) so I can excel in time trials and on long climbs. But I don't know how hard to ride during LT training. Lab tests are expensive, I'm told that heart rate is unreliable and I don't have a watts meter. Is there a simple method for nailing LT intensity without all the black magic?

Answer: LT can be gauged by wattage, lactate accumulation, heart rate or perceived exertion. The first requires a relatively expensive power meter as well as a lab test to find your wattage at LT. Actually measuring lactate means periodic blood draws -- not too practical while you're riding the road. And heart rate can vary for a given power output due to hydration status, environmental conditions and other factors.

That leaves your personal rating of perceived exertion (RPE). In other words, how hard you feel like you're riding. In the old days, everyone trained with RPE. Before heart monitors there was no other way. The good news is that research shows RPE is an effective way to determine intensity.

Allen Lim did ground-breaking research on cycling power while working on his Ph.D. in exercise physiology at the University of Colorado. In an e-mail he wrote:"Training prescriptions don't need to be overly complicated. If athletes are in tune with themselves and quite experienced at perceiving effort, then what they perceive as hard can be used consistently as a reference point for training-induced adaptations and for determining training pace."

So, if your workout calls for a 20-minute effort at close to your LT, it's fine to forget the technology and simply ride at an intensity that feels hard. You'll be close to your lab determined ideal intensity.

How hard is hard? Think of effort on a scale of 1 (lying on the couch) to 10 (riding flat-out and suffering). On this simplified RPE scale, LT intensity is between 8 and 9. This is the point at which breathing is at the breakpoint between hard but steady and labored with gasping. Another way to find it: Increase intensity until you begin to gasp, then back off a notch.

Lactate Threshhold

Recent work has focused on the blood lactate threshold (LT) as a reflection of an individual's level of training. The lactate threshold is that % of VO2 max. at which the cardiovascular system can no longer provide adequate oxygen for all the exercising muscle cells and lactic acid starts to accumulate in those muscle cells (and subsequently in the blood as well). At high levels of activity (but below 100% VO@max), there are always a few muscle cells (not entire muscles, but a small number of cells within those muscles) that are relatively deficient in oxygen and thus producing lactic acid. But this lactic acid is quickly metabolized by other cells that are still operating on an aerobic level. At some point, however, the balance between production of lactic acid and its removal shifts towards accumulation. This point is the LT. It is usually slightly below 100% VO2 max., and will improve with training (move closer to 100% VO2max). Those with an increased LT not only experience less physical deterioration in muscle cell performance for any level of %VO2max, but also use less glycogen for ATP production at any level of performance. Thus an improvement in LT allows the individual to perform at maximal levels for a longer period of time before running out of adequate energy (glycogen) stores.
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Old 03-30-06, 02:09 PM
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The best way to learn riding hills is ....... riding hills.

Alternate sitting and standing. Mostly sitting with relaxed but firm upper body will work for longer inclines, and when a hump shows on the slope stand to mash a little on that small section.

It works for me ...
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Old 03-30-06, 02:41 PM
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Relax your arms.
Get into a rythem
Keep your heels down when seated
Alternate sitting and standing
Smile (it helps relax your face, neck, shoulders, etc)
When it gets hard, breathe from your belly and RELAX

When I'm riding just over lactic threshold heart rate I can usually focus on relaxing and controlling my breathing and drop my heart rate back out of the red while not slowing down on the bike. This is crucial when racing on a long climb or on a breakaway.
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Old 03-30-06, 02:54 PM
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I see to many riders try to stay in the big ring early on hills. There is a lot of crossover in the middle cogs between the 53 and 39 so they're really not benefitting. Just start in the small ring(or middle) and focus on your cadence and breathing. Try to get into a rythem(sp?). Pedal faster not harder. Put you hands on the top of your bars to open up your chest and improve your breathing. If your saddle will allow it push yourself as far back as possible to use the right muscle groups. Like a previous poster said get up out of the saddle every now and then to use different muscle groups and give the other ones a rest. Before you get up drop a couple of gears to compensate for the extra power. If your starting to hit the wall break the hill up into smaller goals. "Get to that road sign" then "you can make it to that switchback". I'm sure a lot of people have seen this advice other places but it works for me.
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Old 03-30-06, 03:28 PM
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Hill? What's a hill?

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Old 03-30-06, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Mariner Fan
Hill? What's a hill?

That looks like my old mailbox when I lived in Indiana. But then again, any rural mailbox in Indiana looks similar since it's so flat. What a difference, now I live in an area where 1000'+ climbs in 2 miles.
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Old 03-30-06, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by azwhelan
I see to many riders try to stay in the big ring early on hills. There is a lot of crossover in the middle cogs between the 53 and 39 so they're really not benefitting. Just start in the small ring(or middle) and focus on your cadence and breathing. Try to get into a rythem(sp?). Pedal faster not harder. Put you hands on the top of your bars to open up your chest and improve your breathing. If your saddle will allow it push yourself as far back as possible to use the right muscle groups. Like a previous poster said get up out of the saddle every now and then to use different muscle groups and give the other ones a rest. Before you get up drop a couple of gears to compensate for the extra power. If your starting to hit the wall break the hill up into smaller goals. "Get to that road sign" then "you can make it to that switchback". I'm sure a lot of people have seen this advice other places but it works for me.

Hahah. Yeah it sucks when its so steep and you're going so slow that your goals go from "that next turn" to "that next tree" to "that little rock on the shoulder 2 feet in front of me".
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Old 03-30-06, 03:53 PM
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Sprint a few hills to get a good feeling of it and then try it a bit slower.
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Old 03-30-06, 03:57 PM
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Pretend you are Lance Armstrong dropping Jan Ullrich.

Pretending you are Eddie Merckx dropping Lance would be better though...
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