Some of you may remember this old Bottecchia frame from a previous post by fellow forum member CarltonRaleigh . Well, it has made it's way (less the components shown here) into Kommisar's garage and is about to become the subject of a new long term Bottecchia project. The frame shows some older Bottecchia features and some transitional ones: the fork crown is classic Bottecchia used since at least 1950. The seat cluster is also the style that was popular in the 50's and early 60's, a sort of socket style lug with cutouts though not identical to any particular previous year. The head lugs however are long point lugs more like those on the later Bottecchias though not quite as graceful as the late 60's bikes. I can narrow it down for certain to the range of 1963 to 1968 since I have pictures of known 1962 and 1969 bikes. My guess is 65-67. At any rate it is a great example of a high-end factory Bottecchia frame from the 60's period when Bottecchia was having great sucess with the Molteni-Bottecchia racing team.

Now comes the hard part. There are precious few useful examples of Bottecchias from this period. I know of no actual bikes and the few pictures that can be found on the web are too lacking in detail to be of much use. Bottecchia Blue, a dark metallic blue, was Bottecchia's racing color in the 60's and is the color I will go with on this frame along with red pin striping and lug lining, basically the same as my 1972 bike. Decals will be an issue. The down tube uses a 'hotdog' shaped decal with 'Bottecchia' script. Older models used a beige panel under the decals but I don't know if that was still the case by this period. The seat tube decals are basically an unknown. I've seen a couple of different examples but don't have clear pictures of any of them. I may need someone like JRrestore to use a little artistic license to create one (you out there JR? ). At any rate, this is likely to be one of those projects that takes a couple of years as my wife would kill me if I went out and spent a bundle of money on it. Stay tuned for periodic updates.

Is that chromed or polished still???

The entire frame is chrome plated under the paint but only the head lugs, ends of the rear triangle, fork crown, and fork tips are polished to a high shine. Bottecchia did make fully polished chrome frames in the 60's but this is not one of those.

That's going to be a hell of a job getting the paint off. If it's chrome plated sandblasting just is NOT an option.

Looks like a very worthwhile project. You obviously know a great deal about the Bottecchia marque but, as usual, its those little, but important features that are difficult to track down. I have an old Bianchi that I cleaned up about 10 years ago. There is still one decal that I cannot track down but i'll keep trying.

It will be interesting to follow your progress - thanks for the photos.

Hmmm...interesting. I'll probably leave that job to the experts when the time comes but I figured a little Stripeze or similar product would do the trick.

Paint stripper will remove the paint and hve no effect on the chrome.

Well fortunately I don't know what most of those important little details are for this bike and well, if I don't I suspect nobody does. At least nobody on this forum or the CR list as of yet. I've asked a couple of times in the last year or so for anybody with pictures, bikes, or just general knowledge to let me know but so far to little avail. So I might just have to make it up as I go, using whatever looks appropriate from the earlier and later examples I have found.

Here's what's pretty firm in my mind now: Campagnolo Record BB, headset, seatpost, cable guides, and 141bcd crank (not the original 151bcd), front derailleur, Universal Model 61 brakes, and Brooks Professional saddle.

Still to be determined: stem and handlebars, rims (leaning towards modern Sun M13II polished in 700C), drivetrain and hubs. That will be a big decision as I haven't decided whether to keep it basically original and go with period Record gear (in which case I would go with high-flange Record hubs) or to quasi modern with 9 or 10-speed casette and Record indexed bar-ends. That would require a low flange modern rear hub at least and maybe I'd use low flange in the front to match. Time will tell.

Many years ago I had a 70's Peugeot with a half chrome/half painted fork. While refinishing I figured out that the whole fork was chromed, and the top half was painted over the chrome. Thinking a chromed fork would be a nice touch, I attempted to strip the top paint off with stripper. It didn't bundge!!! Ended up scraping the paint off with a razor blade, and it took MANY applications of chrome cleaner to get the shine even close.
Don't know if this is helpful (maker, year, part's are all different) FWIW

I have an complete unrestored Bottecchia frame probably older than yours - it may give some clues as to decals and finishing. As near as I've determined, mine is late 50's, non-US imported (no Carnelli anywhere), but still full chrome under paint and a very similar seat lug. Do you have a full suite of pictures anywhere (I am new on this forum).

I'm at work, but can post some photos of mine this weekend. Cheers!

Hi ldmataya, welcome to the C&V forum. I haven't posted full pictures of the frame yet but there are some in a previous post somewhere. I'd love to see the pictures of yours. I have some pictures of 1948, 1950, 1961 and 1962 frames but the decals are incomplete in the later pictures, especially the seat tube decals.

I'm not sure what you mean by "no Carnielli" - the Italian company Teodoro Carnielli & Co. was founded in either 1909 or 1911 (there is some question about that) and was the manufacturer of Bottecchia bicycles from 1926 until the Bottecchia brand was spun off and acquired by another Italian company in 1997. Carnielli is still in business as an Italian manufacturer of sporting goods and still produces bicycles under the Carnielli name and Bottecchia is still in business as a separate company and producing a full range of bikes from city and mountain bikes to professional class racing machines. Bottecchia came into the US through distributors in the old days.

Sorry, what I meant by no Carnielli was no white and blue sticker like the 60's and bike boom bikes had.

Oh ok, I got you. Yeah, I've never seen that sticker on known pre-1969 frames (although admittedly I don't have any pictures of a 1968). That's one (not the only one by a long stretch) question I still have - when did Bottecchia change from the mid-60's to late-60's/boom period style? Since I have examples of a '67 (old style) and a '69 (new style) that narrows it down to '67 or '68.

Nice project! Please keep us updated.

Some spray-on stripper from ACE will do a far quicker job on a larger surface area, and also works on tough areas just the same. Strip-eeze is messy and slow.

-Kurt

Here is my oldest Bottecchia. My memory fades so fast, it is quite a bit different than yours Kommisar89:

https://theseoldbikes.blogspot.com/2009/01/old-red.html

Wow, that is sweet! What a find! Here is a picture of a 1950 Bottecchia with Cambio Corsa drivetrain. It is quite similar. I would guess yours is from somewhere in the mid-50's. When did Campagnolo release their dropouts and fork ends? The fork crown on yours is unusual - notice the one on the 1950 bike is pretty much the same as the boom period bikes and my (presumably) 1967 frame. The seat stay attachment is quite similar though the lug is a bit different.

Stripping chrome is not that hard. It's just a PIA and takes numerous applications. Get the strongest stripper you can find and make sure it is the kind, whether spray or liquid application, that is viscous and sticks. I used the Ace "Extra Strength."

Here are some interesting if somewhat crude frame measurements. If you line the mid-60's frame and an early 70's Bottecchia frame up at the bottom bracket shell, the seat tube, down tube, and head tube line up pretty well. The older frame is an inch smaller in size (perfect fit for me) so the top tube sits lower and the head tube is a bit closer in but that would be expected. What is note worthy are the significantly longer chain stays and consequently slightly longer wheelbase despite the smaller frame size. I'm not sure how that will affect the ride and handling characteristics but it does show that even the big factories like Carnielli were following the trend towards shorter chainstays and wheelbases by the late 60's.

Mid-60's (1967) 22" Bottecchia frame measurements
Frame weight 4 lb 12 oz (2165g)
Fork weight 1 lb 11 oz (767g)
Size, inches 22
Seat Tube, mm 565
Top Tube, mm 570
Chainstay, mm 457
Wheelbase, inches 41.5
Head Tube Angle,° 73°
Seat Tube Angle,° 73°
Seat Post Size, mm 26.8

Boom Period 1968 - 1974 23" Bottecchia frame measurements
Frame weight
Fork weight
Size, inches 23
Seat Tube, mm 585
Top Tube, mm 585
Chainstay, mm 435
Wheelbase, inches 41.0
Head Tube Angle,° 73°
Seat Tube Angle,° 73°
Seat Post Size, mm 27.2

Ok, just an update...forum member ldmataya has been kind enough to provide me with an NOS Bottecchia head badge. This was sort of the last piece in my "is it really a Bottecchia" puzzle though I was 99.9% sure already and yes, the holes line up exactly between the head tube and the badge so that pretty much seals it. I now have bids in on eBay for rims (Mavic Module E), an old style Record rear derailleur, and a rather worn set of shifters, probably Valentino, but with the black contol lever plates on the part number 1202 down tube twin control clip. I'll use that for parts if I win it.

The big hold up now is likely to be the decals. I haven't heard from JRrestore in a while and Greg Softley at CycloMondo doesn't have them and says he would prefer not to make these style of decals unless there is no alternative. That may end up being the case but at any rate it's certainly going to delay things. Well, that and the 5% pay cut I just took at work

Bottecchia almost finished. Decals missing and I also have the horizontal lined holes missing the old-style headbadge.

I have two sets of original decals, both with the "hotdog" shaped Bottecchia decals. This could be the last sets available on the planet so somewhat silly if I would use them...or try to apply the first set, fail...
It would be great if someone could reproduce them. I think you have to sacrifice one set for properly copying them. I have three different decals - the hotdog shaped, one eagle shaped, and the emblem style pictured in Kommisars first post (without red and blue though, just gold).

My not so original Bottecchia is from 1953, I think. The only original components was its Gran Sport derailleurs. The front derailleur is first gen Gran Sport with the old Campy logo, it's not on the bike now because it has some, I think significant, play in the outer front cage plate. (Can this be fixed?)
They bikes serial nr 53 396 A. Campagnolo dropouts. Takes a 26.4mm seatpost, maybe Falck tubing?
Previous owner, since 1959, said the model name was Milan - San Remo.

I put on a Campagnolo 151bcd crankset. Campagnolo Record pedals with strap loops. Ballila straps. Ambrosio Champion stem with Nitto noodle handlebars, I've Ambrosio handlebars to go with the stem but...hm they are so old and my neck is so young..
Campagnolo Record headset, had some problem with stack height. Would have been better to use the Bottecchia headset as in the pictures above, I found one as it on ebay.
Brooks Competition standard saddle, late 50's.
Universal Extra brakes and levers. Interesting, I think, is the round shaped rear brake bridge. Idmatayas Bottecchia seems to have this also.
Campagnolo 3-piece hubs (60's ?) in Fiamme red label rims. Unfortunately my lbs build them up with flat aero shaped spokes from the 80's.. But anyways I'm happy

Looking good! Are you going to put the tan panels on it before you put the decals on? Good luck finding that head badge. I've never seen one of those come up on eBay or anywhere else. The newer style like I got comes up from time to time but I was really lucky to get an NOS badge.

<begin rant> What is it about LBS's? I brought one here a wheel (modern) with a Mavic CXP21 rim that was damaged and asked them to rebuild it. First they told me they couldn't get the CXP21 because it was discontinued which turned out to be true but then they suggested I use a CXP22 which doesn't really match and I didn't want mis-matched wheels. I went online and found that Mavic makes a CXP23 which is the replacement for the CXP21 and looks pretty much the same. So I ask them to use that and they tell me they can't get one. So I tell them not to do the work, I'll go elsewhere, and he asks me to wait while he checks with the owner to see if maybe they can get the rim. Turns out they could so I tell them to go ahead and build it and when I get it back they used straight gauge spokes even though the original used double-butted. Arrrggghhh!!! <end rant>

Anyway, I remember you saying once that those decals were some kind of waterslide reversed on a paper backing so you can't see the decal clearly until you get them off which is a bummer. I bet you can see enough of the outline to measure them though. If I knew basic length and width measurements I bet I could use the picture I have to have the reproductions made. Unfortunately they would probably be modern clear vinyl adhesive rather than the original waterslide and varnish application but I would be satisfied with that.

In regards to the hot dog shaped decals, if they can be scanned then they can be perfectly reproduced. Clear scan, high res, photoshop/illustrator tweaks then get them silk screened on trasferpaper. If you could scan them flat I could reproduce the art. I need these decals as well for my '58-'59.

Alas I don't think there is a way to scan them. I only know of one person with an NOS set and he says the decals are in reverse on the paper so that you can't clearly see the imagine until you actually apply the decal. And needless to say he is not willing to sacrifice his NOS decals to do that. On the other hand, I have asked local decal Meister JRrestore to take a look at the pictures I sent him and see if he thinks he can reproduce them. Presumably that would mean some freehand work or something but then he is far more talented than I. So if he decides to take up that task then we may well have decals.

One problem I still have is that I don't even have exact measurements so unless I can get some he'll have to take a best guess based on the pictures I have of the decals on a couple of bikes.

This has been on C/L for a while. Cottered cranks could be 60s, but it looks bike boomish to me. Just throwin it out there for ya.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/1080895668.html