I've been mountain biking for years, but am a newcomer road biking and to this forum. In a relatively short time, I've come to a few conclusions:
1) I love road cycling.
2) I want little or nothing to do with other roadies.

The reasons for the first should be obvious. Reasons for the second have a lot to do with the attitude of some cyclists.
To illustrate the difference, I'll compare cycling to another hobby of mine-sports cars/amateur racing.
Car people appreciate fine automobiles. We are quick to drool over the latest Ferrari or Lotus. We also appreciate less expensive cars that have a high fun quotient. A well-maintained 80s RX-7 will not attract the attention that the Ferrari will, but will still be appreciated. Also, no one will be sneered at for owning the cheaper car.
In the roadie world, other bikers' tolerance of a rider seems to be based to a large extent on the equipment they have. Someone riding a new carbon gee-gawed bike with the "appropriate" gear is more likely to be treated with respect than someone riding an older, cheaper bike. Owners of less expensive bikes are likely to be sneered at, at the very least.
In amateur racing, what matters is that the person is out there doing it. The only real pre-requisite is a love of the sport. People who make silly mistakes are corrected, but no one makes fun of the bottom finishers. Here, I hear frequent comments about who is and is not a serious cyclist. Beginners seem to be viewed with annoyance at best.
In all, road bikers seem to form the most insular and intolerant community of enthusiasts I have run across. In fact, I've got a few predictions: someone will suggest I just go away. Someone else will criticize me for loving cars as well as bikes.
Perhaps amidst all this, someone can offer a reason why I should make an effort to join other cyclists, rather than just riding by myself.

I think you have just met the wrong people.

I haven't really experienced that type of snobbery, but I hear about it on this forum fairly regularly.
Upstate NY, (crappy weather) doesn't have much of a bicycle population, perhaps that's why I haven't seen it here. Admittedly, I ride a not-cool bike.

I guess everyone needs to have something in their life that says he/she is special and should have respect. I think those individuals, who are practicing snobs, probably feel inferior, are desperate to escape their existence and are generally shallow.

One of my life's lessons: "Anyone can be an a$$hole, but it takes strength to be kind."

I think that if you want to find other friendly roadies to ride with, you'll find them. I agree that there's a lot of 'tude out there amongst roadies. But many others are very friendly and helpful. Not sure where you're writing from, but check out some local clubs or see if any of your local bike shops sponsor rides. Don't throw in the towel just yet.

I found it funny that when riding my mnt bike on the road (my pre-roadie days) while I waved at every cyclist I passed, I would get roughly 10% feedback from roadies. The next day I rode a road bike and got about 70% lol.

Things are far different now, lots of us 'roadies' wave and say hello to folks, and act as the ambasadors that all of us should.

I had a cheap road bike, old arse helmet and a camel back (old school one, that ONLY mnt bikers wore). Was met with lukewarm enthusiasm. Couple months later on the first ride with my new bike the front tire exploded (I'm thinking twisted tube from the shop) while I was in the middle of the pack that was 3-wide. I yelled flat and rode it out straight, didnt take myself or anyone else out, the group waited (rarirty) and I have been 'in' ever since.

Point of my story is on the road your life (literaly) is in the hands of the guys around you, especially when pacelining at 30+. Sometimes takes a bit to prove yourself trustworthy. This just isnt a concern when mnt. biking. One of the most easily recognizable ways to tell if a guy isnt going to kill you is if he's dressed and riding a nice bike. Hey, the bike looks nice so he obviously hasnt crashed it, if he can keep up then he must know somewhat what he's doing. Not a perfect system, but perhaps it adds some insight into what those snobish roadies are thinking.

I don't really think that roadies are all that snobbish. I think that what comes across as distain may just be "focus". A lot of "racer-type" folks are out riding with a purpose --- to get fitter, faster, and just better. If you sat around with them before or after a ride, you'd probably get a better impression. The fact of the matter is that when you're racing in a car there's no opportunity to talk to the other drivers. On a bike, it's a bit different. A lot of folks seem to expect to talk to other cyclists as they pass each other. Do you expect the same thing from other drivers?

What you say about amateur car racing (assuming that's what you were talking about) applies equally to amateur bike racing. Racer's don't really care what you're riding. Most of them only care that you're out there trying your best, too! You will, of course, get more respect if you can finish somewhere other than OTB.

I have to say that I have felt like you from time to time. When I rode I ocassionally felt hated by automobiles and hated by other cyclists. ONe time I met one of the rude cyclists in a non-cycling venue, and you know what? He was a jerk off the bike too.

I have been fortuante enough to find a great group of cyclists to ride with for the past couple of years. We are kind of a mixed up bunch riding all different set ups, but we all have fun. I still run into the snobbery you write about, and I read it here on the forums almost daily. However, cycling is a great soprt, and there are great people out there doing it. As an earlier poster said, don't give up on it yet.


As for your quote: "In all, road bikers seem to form the most insular and intolerant community of enthusiasts I have run across." . . . Have you ever tried golf?

I love hearing it when people mention RX-7s on non-car message boards.

Proud owner of a 1990 Turbo II and a 1989 GXL autocross beater.

when I re-started serious riding 2 years ago (BTW serious cycling is rying to fit in 2K miles/year with a high stress job) I was amazed at the number of fellow roadies who ignored my 'wave/greeting" But I find myself now doing the same. Why? I think its because I am so focused on what I am doing that I just don't notice much else. I focus on my body, my mind, my thoughts (great stress reliever, and have solved many work problems on the road) to the point that I ignore everything else -except traffic.

I often pass someone who waved before I have a chance to wave back.

BTW- I'm a 'lone wolf' rider and like it that way.

expending 30% less energy is always nice. plus, it's safer. yeah, some cyclists are schmucks. there are bad apples in every single group on the planet. where i am, the group ride is great. there are some of the "hardcore" types who look down their nose at you, but i honestly could not possibly care less what they think about me. who is more pathetic, the rider on the steel frame schwinn trying to get into the sport or the carbon-fibered self-appointed uber-cyclist who demeans the first one? anyone who votes the former should go play in traffic. where i am, there are plenty of guys and gals who make a group ride worth doing. i'm sure it's the same where you are.

Seasoned road cyclists sometimes steer clear of new riders. This in many cases is an act of self-preservation, especially on public group rides that sometimes attract riders who have no idea what they are getting into. Just as one would not go out on a golf course for 18 holes with people you have never met if you have never played golf before, new cyclist should not show up at a fast group ride and expect to be coddled along. Seasoned cyclists and racers are there for a fast, safe training ride. And if one or two squirrelly riders show up who have no experience riding in a pace line or can’t hold a wheel, well it make for some tight sphincters. The people who do it day in and day out want to do return home in one piece.

When the Performance bike shop opened up in my area a few years back, the manager knew most of the fast guys and asked if they wanted to use the shop as a staging point for winter training rides. This worked out well at first. But soon, guys started showing up with their brand new matching outfits and bikes, who had never been on a group ride before in their life and who, as far as I could tell, never trained on there own. After several near-wrecks descending steep hills with a group of 25 or more rides, it was decided to force a split of the ride. The front guys turned up a brutally steep climb and hammered as hard as they could resulting in a nice group of about 8 guys who then did a 3 hour ride without further incident. Invariable, some of the most dangerous riders in the group were switchover mountain bikers. Several had the fitness to hang at the front, but had no clue how to behave in a pack, making radical line changes without checking to see if somebody was already there, etc – the usual dumb stuff.

So, if you want to be accepted, show up in shape to hang, and stay in the back and out of the way until you know what you are doing.

This is my first year of road riding, and I have felt the same way at some rides, but others (within the same bike club) were very casual, even though the riders were just as fast (from my perspective behind them). I've never noticed any snobbery about someone's bike at any ride (other than the good natured ribbing I get for riding a triple). Heck, one guy rides his hybrid at the same speed as the rodies and is treated as an equal by them even though he's riding a mid-90's steel hybrid with toe-clips.

I definately notice people (well, the bikes actually) who ride really nice rides before the fat-tires, but that's the same thing as the ferrari situation you mentioned above. I agree with the others that you should just keep looking for another group of riders until you find one that is more accepting.

FWIW, the group of snobs I ran into was on a "fast" ride, so the paceline trust issue might have been what I was experiencing. It doesn't bother me, because I DON'T have the skill to ride in a paceline, which is why I hang off the back (1 bike length) of the last guy in the paceline until I get dropped.

I'm not going to defend the entire population of roadies, lord knows
we have our share of a$$holes.
In a group ride/race situation I believe that most riders keep a distance
until they are sure that the newbie isn't gonna kill someone with his
bike handling skills.
Wanna make a statement? show up for the group ride on a 25yo bike
and keep up with the pack.
I brought my 85 Trek (all original parts except tires) into the LBS,
front wheel in the rack next to a Colnago C40.
Colnago didn't get a second look, but the Trek with the Nuovo record
components got lots of oohs and aahs. BTW the trek at todays prices
would cost about 1/4th the price of the nago both tricked out with
the same kit. . .
Marty

I don´t mean to be argumentative but maybe cycling attracts people who are by their nature loners and may not have good interpersonal skills- I admit I like to be on my own sometimes-you don´t seem to be much different-you have already convinced yourself that other cyclists are not worth bothering with

H Roark, you've noticed something that very few on this forum will admit is true. In the mid 70's to early 90's I didn't detect much "class warfare" or snobbery amongst cyclists. It would be interesting to explore what might have contributed to the changes. Though many other cyclists on this thread make a valid point that most cyclists aren't any more snobbish than any one else. But, with that being true, there still seems to be many more than you'd expect.

Actually, I think that the snobbery sometimes works both ways.

Bicycling is an unusual sport in that an ordinary guy, if he sets his mind to it, can usually manage to buy the equivlent of an Indianapolis race car. $4,000 or $5,000 won't buy you much of a boat or a top notch motorcycle, but it will get you an extreamly nice road bike. That's within the do-able range for lots of people so the bar is set pretty high if you want other people to admire what you have.

On the other hand, there's a kind of unwritten rule about having equipment that's too good. If you actually show up with a $4,000 bike, you'd better be able to make it go or the equipment envy police are going to mock you all the more.

The bottom line is that the people who like you will continue to be friendly regardless of what you ride and the skoffers will find something to carp about no matter what you do. Ride what you feel you can afford, do what you think's best for you, and let other people's opinions roll off of your back.

There are all kinds in road cycling as in any other area of life.

I find friendly roadies and snobs, although I do admit there is a higher incidence of snobbery than in some other areas.

Last week, I was riding the trail from Breckenridge to Frisco, CO, when I heard a lot of conversation behind me. Not a "on your left," or a "Hi!"

3 roadies passed me, immediately riding triple on the trail, continuously ignoring others, and acting as if they owned the world. Two ladies and a gent, very well equipped, expensive bikes and ALL the gear. They were strong riders. As there was a ferocious headwind, I stuck with them for awhile, the three of them forming a good wind break.

This is a MUP trail with a lot of newbies, and 3 abreast is simply not appropriate, as it scares the newbies, despite the expertise of the roadies.

They finally turned off, and I continued, where I had many other roadies wave and nod.

The next day, while I was climbing Vail Pass, I formed a "partnership" with a lady roadie who was extremely nice, and we rode together up the pass.

So, there are all kinds out there.

Normally, I ride alone out of preference!

Interesting that 531Aussie mentioned the tri-geeks. I came to serious cycling (by Red Baron's definition) from triathlon. In my experience, triathlons are very supportive, friendly events. Unless you're a pro, the competition is more against yourself than the other racers and so you get a lot of encouragement during the race. There's a sense of shared suffering and the knowledge that everyone has a weak discipline (or in my case, two!).

On the other hand, triathletes tend to train alone and since drafting is illegal in most races, few bother to learn paceline skills. I learned because I found out that it's a lot more fun to blaze along at 28mph in a big group than to grind away by yourself, studying your thumbs, at 22mph. Plus, it helped me break an hour in the bike split in my last tri.

So, what to do? I guess what I'm going to start doing is waving at every bike I see. From the Colnagos to the Huffys and everybody in between. If they don't wave back, their loss.

Do people here, while driving a car, wave at every other car they pass?

I don't and I don't feel that I have to acknowledge every other bicycle I see, either. Don't get me wrong, I'm a friendly guy and usually try to return a wave or greeting, but I don't run to newsgroups every time some a-hole on a bike ticks me off.

Ya know, I grew up in a town of 1500 people and when I was a kid, you pretty much did wave to every car you passed. Now I live in a city of a million people but I bet there's only 1500 cyclists here. So, it's like a small town on two wheels.

Thanks, Trsnrtr. You've convinced me of my own good idea.

While some of your observations are right now, I think that is a pretty broad statement to make that most roadies are snobs. Granted I have had a few bad experinces, but the thing you have to remember is not to let snobby roadies ruin your time. You ride because you want to, not because you need approval. Good luck!

plus an objectivist wouldn't care or make a big deal about what you posted about anyways...if that makes sense


-------------------------

I appreciate the feedback, and think most of you are right. Snobs are everywhere, it just seems as though quite a few gravitate towards road cycling. There is a contrast between the racing community(cars), the mountain bike community, and the road community. The danger a newbie poses in a pack is a legitimate concern, although I don't have much interest in the "serious" training rides. For me, the competition is first and always against myself, against being winded and tired, and against the urge to stop or slow down. Other riders are incidental to this. Still, a relaxed group ride would be fun, if I can find such a thing. I suppose it's just a question of looking in the right places.
On a side note- I did an interview yesterday with a family that is biking along the Lewis and Clark trail. 50 miles a day for the whole family, done for the most part on older bikes. (A Cannondale hybrid, an Old Fuji road bike, a couple of Bianchis, and one I can't remember the name of.) Both parents were doctors, so I doubt that cost was the reason for the older bikes-they just liked them. At any rate, they were very pleasant people, and I was impressed by each of them.

I once had a friend go by me in his car, honk and yell hello and later tell me I was a "just another cycling snob" for not responding and waving back.

I respectfully pointed out that I was doing almost 40 mph down a very busy highway hill and any disruption in concentration and focus could have been disastrous, particulary since some fool was honking and yelling at me.

I consider myself very social on my bike and try to be friendly to everyone. But there are limits.

55/Rad

You're the first to catch the Rand reference. I've used that user name since college, when I very definitely was an Objectivist. These days, Rand's principles still inform my thinking, but I'm certainly not a Randroid. I still love the Fountainhead, though.
You're right that a true Ojectivist wouldn't care(or would at least claim not to). In fact, I have yet to personaly suffer the sneers, but I see them happening to others, and find it irritating. Snobbery of that sort is sort of Peter Keating-esque, don't you think? The real Roark, I suspect, would never even consider riding in a group. Or doing anything in a group, for that matter.

Oh, yeah. I forgot about the safety thing. Okay, I'll shut up now.