turtlendog

Welcome to the second in a series of questions steming from our first group-ride (and longest ride yet) on our new tandem.

Background: As previously mentioned in another thread, I am a pretty experienced at riding the pace-line on my single (okay, I live for the pace-line!). I've developed a technique for staying well positioned in a group that goes something like this.

1. At "crucial moments" padal for all you are worth. If the group is your speed, but you're dying, stick with it. Five minutes later, the pace will probably be slower, and you'll be fine. In other words, hang on to the group if you can (cause once you get dropped it's not a group-ride anymore )

2. Don't touch the brakes unless you have to, and have already called out something like "slowing!"

3. Pedal easy, coast, and/or hang a knee out of the slip-stream if you need to dump speed.

4. The sound of brakes rubbing a rim is almost enough to make me start looking for a ditch.

There's more to it, but let's work with this.

I'm learning to captain a tandem in a pace-line and have observed that my usual techniques don't work as well in some cases.

On point number one, more of a comment than a question. My stoker has something more to give, but doesn't know when to give it. It was cool when I asked her to "give me three minutes and we'll be on that group!" I actually had to back off a little so that we wouldn't drop the single we were working with as we took the lead. I need to communicate better.

Regarding the rest: I've noted that it's fairly (okay very) disruptive to try to coast to control speed. I assume it feels the same to my stoker as it does to me when she forgets to pedal. There's also a very definate lag between slow and go. Having observed this, I experimented with just dragging the brake a little and keeping the spin (even though I am loathe to do so because I don't want to freak anybody out behind us).

So the big question (Hey, stay tuned and I might get to my point!) What techniques do you use to maintain your position in a pace-line (or is "your position" at the front )?

TandemGeek

There was a previous question to the list by brad that also explored this subject to which I replied that may or may not answer your question; here tis:

My original reply which includes some of the things you've already mentioned

Wow, there are so many thoughts running through my mind given your scenario -- many of them cautionary. Such as, if you're riding in tight pacelines where single bikes are using their brakes find another paceline. This is an accident waiting to happen.

Anyway, in answer to your question, YES. Physics dictate that -- all other things being equal -- a tandem with 275lbs of team weight and a wheelbase of 5.5 - 6' will not stop nor change direction as fast as single bike with a 170lbs rider and a 3' wheelbase. Over time, if you ride with several good single bike riders on a regular basis you can learn to ride well with each other. However, there is a lot of give and take -- but the rewards are usually worth the individual sacrifices. Sometimes you gotta push hard, sometimes you gotta hold back, and sometimes they get a free ride or have to wait at the top of a steep hill. All and all, it's not a bad way to share road time.

Back to pacelines, let me emphasize a few points on riding tandems in pacelines.

1. DON'T ride a tandem in tight pacelines with riders of questionable or unknown abilities (actually, that's a universal rule regardless of what you're riding).
2. If there are tandems and singles lining up for a paceline keep the tandems nose to tail as much as possible to reduce the potential for accidents and slinky effects of gapping and recovery that go on with mixed fleets. NOTE: sometimes it's just better to suck it up and let the tandems rotate in their own paceline in front of the single bikes -- they usually don't complain.
2. Leave a few more inches of gap between your front wheel and the rear wheel of the bike in front of you than you would if you were riding on a single bike -- it may be the difference between a wheel touch and a FDGB (Fall Down Go Boom).
3. NEVER let your front wheel overlap the rear wheel of a single bike in a paceline.
4. Raise your chest into the wind and soft pedal to scrub speed and try not to use your brakes in a mixed company paceline.
5. If you absolutely have to use your brakes in a paceline to keep from over running the rear wheel of the bike in front of you do it ever so gently earlier rather than abruptly at the last minute. The latter is the worst thing anyone can do in a paceline. If a paceline falls apart on itself I'd rather run off the road into the unknown than auger into the bikes in front of me and then have the pleasure of being crashed into by the bikes behind. Been there done that on a single and it ain't pretty.
6. Apply these same guidelines when you ride in tandem-only pacelines. It is an exhilarating experience when you can find 10 - 20 other tandem teams of matched abilities who can share an invigorating tandem paceline at a rally. However, at the same time it can be a nightmare if a squirrel gets loose in the pack.

What I'd add to that based on your comments thus far...

Regarding on bike communication between you and your stoker again, not knowing how long you've been doing the tandem thing together, I would note that the more time most successful teams spend together on the tandem the more in-tune they become to each other. It's often times been said by many teams that they "communicate through the pedals" which, at least for us, is very true. My favorite analogy for describing how tandem cycling works between a captain and stoker is ballroom dancing in that, for both activities to go well someone needs to lead and someone needs to follow. So, in time -- and I don't seem to recall it took all that long for us -- you and your stoker will learn to compromise on pedal cadence and and your stoker will most likely be able to feel, key off, and mimic any subtle changes you make in pedal pressure, i.e., coasting, easing off and soft pedalling, picking up the tempo, etc... At the same time it is likely that you'll make subtle changes in how you ride by anticipating tempo changes and gear changes earlier which will also smooth out the riding process. In aggregate, these things will vastly improve the amount of control you'll be able to acheive with your tandem while, at the same time, your riding efficiency will increase and your task load (and stress level) will decrease.

Back to the paceline, where the real need for communication takes place is with regard to any solo bikes you may be hooked up with in a paceline. You'll want to ask any rider directly behind you if they've ever drafted a tandem before. If not, warn them that you will be feathering your brakes and that it will take you a few seconds to respond to gaps in the line (Note: I never call out minor brake use on the tandem). As for the riders around you, if you are in an aggressive riding group that is using a true paceline and rotating off the front let it be known that solos should not "fill in" in front of you if a gap suddenly opens due to a surge in speed; again, it will take you a few seconds to respond to changes in the paceline's speed. Moreover, if you try to drive hard to close a gap you'll quickly find yourself over running the bike in front of you which then necessitates -- you guessed it -- more than a light touch of the brakes.

Again, while the physics are the same for tandems and solo bikes, the tandems with their significantly higher weights must be allowed time and room for more gradual adjustments in speed. Thus, unless you really have a good group of disciplined solo riders around you it is often times less stressful and safer to take long pulls on the front before dropping back for a rest break. If you feel the riders around you are a bit too aggressive, unless you can take a flyer off the front and remain clear, sometimes it's just better to hang off to the side or off the back.

If your riding locales include hills, a whole new dimension is added when you have single bikes and tandems riding in a pack that also demands some communication and cooperation. More specifically, when approaching a small climb it should be understood that the tandem needs to allowed to move up towards the front of the pack where it can ride along side the single bikes, the idea being that while the tandem will most likely fall off the pace and drift back, it will remain in contact with the group up to the summit. Once at the summit, the reverse comes into play where the tandem must be given a "lane" in which it can safely be allowed pass along side the single bikes, particularly when there are rolling hills where the tandem -- if allowed to "run free" -- will be carried well up the next hill by its momentum. However, if the rollers are small enough, the tandem can usually stay out in front and pull the pack at a very crisp pace. In this scenario, single bikes get the benefit of the tandem's draft and, if the hills are too steep for the tandem to crest on momentum, the process begins all over again. Now, if you get caught behind a pack of single bikes on a hill or a series of hills and aren't able to hold the rear wheel of the last bikes still in contact with the main pack, chances are you'll have a heck of time getting back through on the descent and will lose the valuable momentum that would otherwise carry you part way up the next climb.

Bottom Line: Every paceline and pack is different. You have to keep your wits about you and remember that job #1 is the safety and comfort of your stoker. If you feel a bit antsy about a paceline or pack just remember that your stoker will know it and probably be twice as antsy: that's not a good thing.

SDS

In the Tue-Thur "race training rides" I do, we start with 40 to 90 people, and the pack strings out, with perhaps 2-5 survivors in the lead pack at the end. There's usually some flat warmup in traffic at the beginning where we try to keep everybody together, and then the hills start. Maybe it's different where you are, but anybody we see coasting usually yo-yo's forward and back and rides a little erratically, and we start thinking about getting around them and how to get rid of them. I'd rather somebody kept pedaling and feathered the brakes, and pushed a higher gear so they never get in the position of coasting in the first place. Sitting up or sticking a knee out are both good ways to trim some speed by adding some drag, with moving laterally out of the draft a very poor third. Because of the greater mass of a tandem relative to frontal area, none of this works except precise monitoring of relative speed and appropriate power output, and if that doesn't work, feathering the brakes. I'm lucky because I have been riding with one of my stokers for eight years, and I never ask her how she does it, but her power output is proportional to mine. I think she carefully monitors our position relative to the other bikes. I do talk to her about tactical choices, like let that break go or try to bridge up to it. I try hard never to let the stoker work harder than me. On anything over 50 miles, I want to preserve their legs to the end, so we can finish strong. That means limited standing pedaling, and not riding stupid (on the front, pushing the pace) all day. Yes, it's fun to go out and dance from time to time, but on a long ride (100 miles), we try to ride conservatively for the first 70-80 miles. Then we'll see what we have left.

I'd rather pedal than coast anywhere except going downhill, standing for a butt brake, or adjusting a shoe strap, corners, etc.

The hardest things to do well with a tandem or a single are rotating pacelines or rotating echelons. If you want to do them well, you just have got to have racer-types with expert bike-handling skills to do them with. If you have the people, you can do them with a tandem, even when mixed with singles bikes. Reliable, predictable motions are the key. You want everything to appear to be happening in slow motion, except for the scenery whipping by.

Things that reduce the management burden are helpful. Never look down to see what gear you are in. Use the Flight Deck computer with the graphic display. Put the HRM on the mount on the handlebars. Forward on the aerobars with the computer is even better. Never rotate your wrist and look at it to see what your HR is. Use a helmet or eyeglass mirror. The only one I like is a TigerEye helmet mirror, but others are just as faithful to their different mirrors. Use the narrowest cassette you can get away with, so you never have to worry about the pedals dropping out from under you or hardening to concrete. A tandem is sort of like carrying a ladder. Lateral moves should be carefully considered and done very slowly. You don't want to wipe somebody out with the other end of the ladder because you were sure you had clearance for a single bike.

What do we do to stay near the front of the pack/paceline on a tandem? Draft very well and save energy for the moments when we will need it. Think ahead. Try hard not to ride stupid. Almost always we are better off staying with the pack going up hills, than trying to get a lead. Guys have brain damage from excessive testosterone poisoning, and they just can't stand to see anybody in front of them on a hill, so we are better off drafting as much as possible and responding to their moves. Even if the skinny little weasels get twelve yards or so off the top of the hill, we can get that back on the downhill, unless they are realllly trying to get the pace up.

I should be doing the FWBA Benbrook ride this Saturday on my tandem.

turtlendog

This all sounds about like what I expected, but I didn't follow this statement.

We're very new to the tandem with about 200 miles logged so far. I guess some of this will come in time. Duh!

One thing to mention is that she is unable to see anything to the front (I guess I really do make a better door than a window). I don't know if this is true for all teams, but I suspect most.

I was wondering if there was any sense she could use to estimate our position and relative need for slow/go, which leads me to this slightly off topic thought:

Don't you just love the sound of 20 bikes when there's no wind, no traffic, no conversaton, no shifting, and no coasting?

TandemGeek

Having one tandem in a pack of single bikes isn't a big deal. However, if there are 5 tandems and 15 single bikes you'll want to have all 5 tandems together either as a group in the paceline or leading the paceline followed by the 15 single bikes instead of having a tandem followed by a single or two with a tandem behind the single and so on. Again, tandems accelerate and decelerate more gradually than single bikes that are 1/2 as heavy. Therefore, you're better off if you can keep the 1/2 bikes from getting interspersed in between the tandems as multiple bikes adjusting for speed in a paceline can wreak havoc with the tempo of your paceline. And, the more speeding up and braking that go on to make speed adjustments in a paceline the higher the probability that someone is going to clip an overlapped wheel and go down.


Yes, that's true for most teams.



She'll have to rely on you for speed adjustments; again, it's all in the pedals. However, you can imploy some simple commands to communicate the need to increase or decrease speed that may help....

For example, the captain for one couple we ride with now and again calls out "+1 (plus one)" or "-1 (minus one)" to request slight speed / power adjustments from his stoker. We'll occasionally hear a +2 or a -2. It seems to work for them. I prefer the unmolested sound of the bikes rolling with chains and gears humming along as you describe vs. lots of "hold your line", +1, braking, standing, and other commands coming out of a paceline. Again, I think the more time you get in the saddle together the more intuitive all of this will become. If at all possible, try to hook up with some of the other tandem teams in your area for group rides. If they're experienced teams you'll learn a lot through riding with them either on tandem-only outings or at group rides.

turtlendog

Ahh, the nose to tail thing make sense in that context.

Thanks for elaborating!

zonatandem

While we no longer are a 'go-fast and keep our nose to the front wheel tandem team' we used to paceline when the opportunity arose.
A memorable ride was a century in Ohio, back in the '70s, when 4 tandems formed a double paceline; when at the head of the line, on signal, we'd peel off: one tandem left, one right, and then the following tandem team did the pulling . . . Had over 50 half bikes drafting our choo-choo train. At the lunch stop, we all ate and the singles did not want to leave without the tandems. Lo and behold, we had suffered a flat and fixed it . . . and the 3 other tandems decided to wait us, as did all those half-bikes; but my pump exploded (blew up a No. 1 pump . . . remember that brand?)! Someone loaned us a pump, aired up the tire and off we went! A great and fast century with lots of smiling faces including the 4 tandem teams and got lots 'thank you guys!' from all those happy singles.
In other drafting situations, if we were comfortable with the others on the ride, we did not mind doing a paceline. However in one paceline we were told 'hey, there's 2 of you on that bike; you have to do a double pull!' That's when stoker decided 'oh yeah?' and the afterburner really kicked in!
Pacelining can be fun and fast; but keep your wits about you and communicate!

While we may be 'over the hill,' we still love tandeming TWOgether!
Rudy 'n Kay/Zona tandem

spacerconrad

The paceline usually sorts itself out with us in front, sometimes without our knowledge. Jacquie'll tap me on the back to let me know we've picked up a line. I prefer to be out front anyway for all the reasons given in this forum.
As for communication, it didn't strike me until a few months ago that we rarely say anything while we ride, and rarely need to unless something odd happens.