Hi,
I just received a few old paramounts and one of them in particular I can't figure out the date. I'll attach the picture to this thread. It is full shimano 600 and it has a "approved by schwinn" badge on the seat tube. The serial number is MMC1389 - I can't find any reference to this on the waterford site.


note: the fenders are not original - they are made by Raleigh. Also, I have a chrome 1971 P15-9 and a kool lemon 1972 P13-9 I am also going to be putting up on ebay pretty quick here. All the bikes are 23". Thanks for your help!


@

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that it has Suntour drop outs.

That looks suspiciously like a Voyager with Paramount decals.

I can't help you with the date, but that is a beautiful bike! The kool lemon '72 would go nicely with my bikes.

In case you are curious, here is a pic of the 72' cool lemon:

That's awesome! So it's going on eBay?

Yeah, I'm planning on putting that one up along with a chrome '71. If anybody has any more questions, you can email me at adam@isellbikes.com. Thanks,

-Adam

Look at "oldroads.com" and "sheldonbrown.com" both have good dating tools and more places to post your question.

Someone's been monkeying around with these. As far as I know, Schwinn never put that vintage decal set on the top tube. They always went on the downtube. The succeeding(sp?) decal set had Schwinn on the down tube and Paramount on the top tube. I also am suspicious of the first bike with the painted lugs. Looks like an oval headbadge also. The Paramount always had it's own headbadge. Not sure about the second bike. It has the chrome plated lugs(are those Nervex Pro?) but again, what is that headbadge, and where is the Reynolds 531 decal. These bikes need closer scrutiny. Are there eyelets on the dropouts?

The serial number on the 2nd bike matches up correctly. It is M72181 indicating that it was the 181st bike made in December of 1972. Decals are correct for that particular year.

The first bike is not a Paramount. The second bike looks like a repainted Paramount, but it's definitely not box stock and I remember the headbadge on the 70's Paramounts were round with the star, so that second bike is a little weird too.

Buyer beware.

Thanks for the Info. As I am not the original owner of the bikes I do not know their complete history. I simply am trying to sell them.

dont take offence to this, but thats exactly what everyone says when people start pointing out discerepancies on ebay auctions.

I went to his website, and it appears that he (or she) acts as a middle man for people who want to sell their bikes on eBay. So, in this case, it may be true. He has that 1972 Kool Lemon up, but I haven't seen the first one with the funky serial number.

I saw the '72. nice, but 2K is a bit much imho. Hopefully he/she will find a buyer.

be that as it may, its still the same old thing I hear from most auction sellers when someone points out that their "rare vintage bike" is actualy some rebadged gas-pipe special.

besides, if someone going to put someone elses bikes up under their name, you would think he/she would have some veriable history or at least know what they are. Its not that this person is trying to deceive (I hope), It simply lends to the credibility of their ebay name (and would add to the total of the bids, I'm sure).

I'm sorry but while "buyer beware" should be a rule of thumb, I think sellers should take some basic steps to make sure they dont misrepresent (intentionally or by ignorance) what they sell.

For what its worth, this is a general gripe I have. I'm not picking on isellbikes.com's auctions in particular but it just seems like thats what everyone says when someone points out something funny with a freshly-painted "classic".

Give me some credit here.... When you come across a bike that is 30+ years old (like the 72' paramount) you are never going to know the complete history. In my case, I am dealing with a private collector who has many bikes, and in most cases is not the original owner of these bikes. I found out as much information as I could from him, and I did the rest of my homework on the internet. I know this is a 72' and I know that it is in better condition than most bikes 30 years newer. By no means do I consider myself an expert on vintage bikes - that's why I came here. Thanks for all of your input.

-Adam