Here in Minneapolis there have been a string of incidents on a local bike path in a short period of time. So far there are three police reports of a group of kids hanging out on the side of the path and randomly trying to knock people of their bikes. In some instances they knock the person down in other times the person stays on the bike but get's punched or kicked.

This freaks me out as I ride this trail often and figure could escalate to something even worse. I've noticed the graffiti increasing on trail signs and the path itself and it's so sad because it's such a great trail. The police have started patroling the specific area but I figure they'll just move to a more remote section of the path. Here I am thinking I was safe from cars...

It also freaks me out because at 35 I'm finding myself cursing kids. That I thought I'd never do. But since I've been riding I've been spit at and water balloons thrown at me and it always just p!sses me off. I hear myself saying "I would have never done that when I was younger".

Wanted to mention it to warn other Minneapolis bikers, ask opinions of what to do and simply rant.

Sounds a lot like:

https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/28526-third-cyclist-assaulted.html

Is it the same thing?

Sounds like the descriptions of the kids needs to be posted and a group of cyclists should look for them on the ride so they can call the police and have them aprehended. Carry a digital camera on you to snap pics of suspicious kids.

Better yet carry a weapon to defend yourself with. Not a gun although it would be my preference. The temptation to use firepower can cause you more greif than releif. An extendable baton would be neat to have and may fit in the jersey pocket. pull it out and whip it once to extend it then start whipping the doo doo out of them.

Hey Spexy, where exactly are these trails, and what sections of it did all this take place on? I think I'm a little West of you... (I live in Shorewood out past Excelsior). This was the crap they were mentioning on channel 9 news a few weeks back right?

We had an interesting incident here when the county was building a bicycle trail along an abandoned railroad track.

Some of the upper-class snoots who lived along the abandoned tracks did not want the trail. Of course, they protested and fought against the trail in court. One guy, however, decided to take it a step further and started shooting at joggers on the trail.

The local sheriff had the courage to go jogging in plain-clothes.

Sure enough, the culprit shot at the sheriff. That was his big mistake. He was arrested and got the book thrown at him. the @sss-whole probably thought he was a hero until he saw his wealthy neighbor friends scatter when he was caught by the police.

Chris, Yes it is the same thing. Hadn't seen that post.

Sam, I am going to buy some mace (sp?) The problem is a weapon, if properly used, will only take care of the one person making contact. What about the others that are egging them on? Still, I'll carry it anyway. I've started carrying my cell phone in the case clipped right to my front waist band instead of my back jersey pocket. But as a woman whipping the tar out of some strapping young man with a baton seems highly unlikely (though at this point...somewhat tantalizing. heh, heh).

Cipher, It's the Cedar Lake Trail, up near downtown under the 94 overpass. Overpasses just seem to attract all sorts of nefarious types I guess. It affects downtown commuters the most. I can re-route my trip but like I said, they could show up anywhere. They did actually report it again on the news last night, so maybe more people will be on the look-out.

Mike, fortunately just about every twincitian and their brother is a bicyclist or rollerblader (seems that way on the weekend at least) so we're lucky not to have people complaining about the trail itself. Your story goes to prove however that you don't have to be a young whipper-snapper to stir up dangerous trouble.

Spexy, I now view the new 'conceal & carry' law that was just passed here May 28 in an entirely new light...

I'm an arterial warrior If they want to hang out in the parking lane of a four-lane arterial in hopes of knocking me off my bike, well, let them try

[RANT]

As for traffic safety, I feel safer among the cars than I do on our own local bike path (Centenial Trail). On an arterial, I don't have fellow road users driving along with a dog on a 20-foot retractible leash. I don't have four-year-old motorists weaving all over the place, or doing circles, or just stopping unexpectedly. I don't have to deal with a road that was made all curvy with blind corners just so it would be "cute." I don't have to call "passing on your left!" to the motor vehicles and then try to dodge them when they jump to their left.

Just give me my 3rd-Eye helmet mirror, my NiteRider light system, and the Revised Code of Washington. And the faster the bike, the better

[/RANT]

Cipher, if only we could equip the bike with a nice light carbon fibre AK-47 things would be equal. Very tempting. Seriously though, I'm not a big fan of guns. But that's a whole 'nuther discussion.

MechBgon, I hear ya. Fortunately for me I work from home so am able to roadbike the trail when the weekenders are road-raging on the city streets. On the weekends or after work hours, when it's crowded, I usually just ride my cruiser and go at slower speeds if I venture out at all. I gave up long ago trying to train amongst the '20ft retractable leash' people. But you make a great point and I've heard it from others as well.

For those of you thinking about carrying a handgun, or more, please take a personal defense course from an NRA instructor. You will learn how to handle the weapon safely, how to engage targets, but more importantly, you will learn that there is a lot of duty which comes from carrying. You will have to avoid using the weapon, excpet in cases where application of deadly physical force is acceptable under the law, and you will learn that you can rest assured that even if your use is 100% justifiable you will be sued, and there is a substantial likelihood that an anti-gun prosecutor will attempt to make political hay by prosecuting you. It won't be a false prosecution because you will be relying on an affirmative defense.

I am very much in favor of laws permitting individuals to carry, but equally in favor of those who carry doing all they can to be well-trained and safe.

I am also appalled at the general lack of knowledge regarding firearms and their use. For example, AK-47's are not made from carbon fibre, they are made from relatively crude sheet metal stampings, although there are some lightweight stocks available. AK-47's are also fully automatic weapons, and have been banned from import since 1986, except for use by law enforcement or military organizations. There are derivatives of the AK-47 which are semi-automatic, but even for most of those there are substantial restrictions beyond those which apply to most rifles. The AK-47 round is also relatively low power for a centerfire rifle, way below such long time favorites as the 30-30. I know I see coming attractions for a TV movie called 44 minutes which describes AK-47 firepower as overwhelming, but while I certainly don't want to be on the receiving end of a 7.62x39 round, I wouldn't put AK's in a category by themselves just because they can look ugly.

It was a joke FOG. I know they are made of metal. I was making a weight-weenie reference.

I also ride the Cedar Lake trail from time to time because I live downtown. I ride it at all times, weekends and weekdays. I have noticed that there are some hood rats hanging around under the bridges. I am 25 years old and would not like to be punched or kicked while I am riding, but if I was, I would be unclipping pretty fast to dismount and kick some tiny hiny. I think kids that pester people on bikes won't learn from a little police slap on the wirst. As minors, they are not going to get punished. Kids like that obviously only know one thing, violence. That is how they learn. Will two wrongs make a right? No, but it won't make things worse, the next time those kids, or any other are thinking about having some pinata fun with the cyclists, they might think about the time that one cycle guy beat the snot out of their buddy. I don't know, maybe I just have to much hate?

But he didn't shoot no deputy

It will if they call the cops, or if they've got a few mates hiding around the corner (remember, people like this are usually only brave in a crowd). For what it's worth, I still think calling the cops is a better option. Sure, the kids mightn't appreciate it much - but just think about the reaction their parents might have to a little phone call from the police.

Parents! You think the parents care? If the parents had anything to do with the kids, they wouldn't be out there terrorizing bikers in the first place. We are not talking about Smallville here where the police call Johnny's parents and Johnny gets a spanking and a talking to when he gets home. The parents of these kids are out there doing the same thing on a bigger scale!

Princebaal, I wouldn't advise getting off your bike near these guys as tempting as it may seem. It's bound to get out of hand. But you gotta do what you think is right--just don't want to see anybody else get hurt.

Chris, calling the cops on these guys is the only way in my opinion since after the huge amount of trouble they've caused they are going to really pay. However, I think Princebaal is right that their parents don't give a flying fig. It's down to juvenile court being the only entity that will deal with them.

The person with the camera idea was right. A positive id could help nip this in the bud.

I need a spy camera...

I'm not necessarily saying the parents care about the kids. However, they might find a 10pm phone call from the cops just a little annoying. I know, I've dealt with this sort of situation before.

I saw them again today! I was riding cedar lake trail, and I saw one kid on the inside of the fence, I think he was the look out kid. As I rode past, two other kids emerged from inbetween two trains on the other side of the fence. One of them was holding a rock. As I rode past I was giving them the death stare, just looking like, "c'mon, try it punk." One of the kids on the other side of the fence had a huge grin on his face, like, "Yeah, you know what I got." But, I rode by and they didn't do anything. Oh well, maybe next time.

pricebaal, I agree , these kids probably only have 1 parent, and they couldn't give a **** about them they let them get into trouble so that they won't have to look after them

I'm reminded of a story that's about motorcycling, but has some application here. A rider is in accident, cut off by a left-turning motorist. His friend stops, and as the friend approaches his injured comrade repeats over and over: "I knew that guy was going to turn in front of me! I knew it, I knew it, I knew it." And the friend replies, "well, if you knew it, why did you keep going?"

The point is that when it comes to safety on a bike trail, a dark street, or whatever, sometimes pride can keep us going when it makes perfect sense just to turn around. As I've mentioned on other threads, I think it perfectly appropriate to think seriously about violent self-defense, and even to carry weapons where that is legally allowed. But the lion's share of safety comes from avoiding problems.

I'm not a small guy. I've had a lot of self-defense training and where I can I'll carry weapons when I ride. But if I see even some adolescent who looks like he's a lookout somewhere ahead of me, I'll just stop and turn around. Yes, it may look silly, it may even seem demeaning. The kids may even get some satisfaction out of it. But if I know there's a dodgy character ahead, and some chance of an encounter, why would I keep going? Why wouldn't I avoid that? If turning around avoids a violent encounter it's almost always worth it. And whatever else is true this kind of thing communicates to prospective attackers that you're alert, which is never a bad thing.

Yes, call the cops afterward, and if you think you can do it safely bring a camera if you want. But avoidance has a lot to be said for it, more even than having the right body language when you ride through a group of violent kids or whatever. Something to think about.

About 3 weeks ago one man was attacked on our local trail. He was not cycling, but skating.

It happened at about 16 o'clock (4 PM). The skater overtook 3 young men on the trail. One of these men caught the skater for the sleeve and tried to push him on the ground. The skater thought at first that this was a joke. Then he was on the ground and other two joined the first attacker. After short struggle they took his mobile phone and torn the thick gold chain from his neck.

The man took off his skaters and run after the attackers, caught the first robber and began to beat him. The other two stopped, took a bottle from the ground and began to close. The skater decided to run away himself this time.

He then stopped someone and called police. Police arrived in 10 minutes, but the stolen items were never recovered.

During the original struggle some cyclists passed by, but refrained from helping the man, despite the calls for help from him.

At least, the robbers have not injured him. It seems they were the drug addicts in need of cash.

I often cycle on this trail, but usually very early in the morning - from 5 till 8. At this time the drug addicts are still asleep. I also prefer to cycle with the buddy. A buddy is the better protection than a gun.

In March, something a little similar happened to me on our local bike trail (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ighlight=vicki). Since March, I have just stuck to riding in my 100-acre-woods and on the farm roads around my place.

I have kept on the police, however, until they have successfully cleaned up the trail. At least there have been no other incidents reported. In the meantime, I have bought some mace to take with me if/when I ever ride the trail again. I also plan to take a self-defense course at the Rec Center this summer.

Stories like these are my biggest fear I'll have when riding.

You all are a superb bunch and I really like what I am reading about the use of defensive weapons and tactics! People like you are who concealed carry laws are written for!

Merriwether has said it perfectly when he talks about AVOIDANCE. It should be the #1 concern when carrying a weapon. It's as simple as keeping yourself out of situations where you may need to use your weapon. If more people could combine a proper alert mindset with proper training, criminals might have to think twice about their chosen profession. I feel safer knowing people are carrying weapons on the same trails I am riding. Merriwether, you deserve a pat on the back!

I suggest everyone carry a good quality pepper spray. Fox labs spray is arguably the best on the market. Its cheap insurance as a non lethal alternative, and the punks might back off the instant they see it.

All that aside, I can not fathom what must be going through these people's heads! When I was a teen (not long ago at all since I'm 23) I never did anything like that. It's a respect and discipline issue.

Some day I hope to meet a good lady and get married, I can feel the protective instinct within myself as a man. I have spent years thinking about self defense and I know I wouldn’t hesitate to use deadly force if my life or the lives of my immediate family were in danger. I take firearm safety very seriously and was even a range officer for my school’s pistol club.

Good luck and safe riding all,
CranialCrusader

How do you figure?