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25mm wide wheels. Anyone have em?

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25mm wide wheels. Anyone have em?

Old 06-23-16, 03:59 PM
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25mm wide wheels. Anyone have em?

I'm looking into some new wheels and they come in 23mm or 25mm widths. Anyone using 25s? Any pros or cons? Thank you.
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Old 06-23-16, 04:08 PM
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I have a set of HED belgium+ trainers with 25mm width.

No cons to think of besides the premium I paid for the brand.

Pros are cornering is much nicer and "natural" feeling due to tires being spread across the rim more instead of being forced upward into a light bulb shape that flops and has give. Another plus is you can run wider tires.
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Old 06-23-16, 04:15 PM
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Wider rims/tires can make for clearance issues on some frames. Measure yours before buying. I've got 28mm wide rims and the only neg is I had to shave my brake pads a bit to get enough clearance for optimal braking. My 25mm Conti GP4000sII's measure out at 29.xxmm.
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Old 06-23-16, 04:32 PM
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Pros = Everything except weight

Cons = ^
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Old 06-23-16, 04:37 PM
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Cool. Thank you all for your responses!
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Old 06-23-16, 11:53 PM
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Archetypes are 23mm wide
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Old 06-24-16, 03:35 AM
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Just out of curiosity, say you're running a 25mm tire on a 19mm wide rim. Of course it has that lightbulb effect due to the wider tire/narrow rim.

Now say you run that 25mm tire on a 25mm wide rim. The tire of course will flatten out/decrease overall diameter.

Was the change in diameter noticeable to any of you that ride wider rims?

I'm about to build a set of wheels and thinking of going 25mm wide/25mm tire. On a 19mm rim, that 25mm tire is a hair away from the brake bridge in the rear and the barely clears the lower fork crown in the front. Width is fine. I want to go with a 25mm rim because I heard I've heard it almost feels like you're riding tubs....but if it also squishes the tire flatter/gives more clearance, that would be an even extra benefit.
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Old 06-24-16, 07:03 AM
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Another neat thing about running the same width rim as the tire you run is that you can remove the wheel without having to release the brake. Pretty minor, but I like it.
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Old 06-24-16, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Regulatori
Just out of curiosity, say you're running a 25mm tire on a 19mm wide rim. Of course it has that lightbulb effect due to the wider tire/narrow rim.

Now say you run that 25mm tire on a 25mm wide rim. The tire of course will flatten out/decrease overall diameter.

Was the change in diameter noticeable to any of you that ride wider rims?

I'm about to build a set of wheels and thinking of going 25mm wide/25mm tire. On a 19mm rim, that 25mm tire is a hair away from the brake bridge in the rear and the barely clears the lower fork crown in the front. Width is fine. I want to go with a 25mm rim because I heard I've heard it almost feels like you're riding tubs....but if it also squishes the tire flatter/gives more clearance, that would be an even extra benefit.
I ride 25's on a rim with 17.2mm inside width. There is no noticeable light bulb effect.

There was a discussion about this on another forum. Some claimed to have experienced it - tire folding over and squirming around on a too narrow rim. The consensus was that with 25's you have to drop below a 17mm inside width rim to feel it. 23mm tires should be limited to 15mm inside width rims.

There are actually ISO standards based on real world testing for rim vs tire width.

I think the light bulb effect should be less of a concern for the OP than is blowing the tire off the rim with a tire too narrow or a rim too wide. The ISO standards state that a 21mm internal width rim should only be used with tires 35mm and up.

THE RIGHT TYRE WIDTH ON THE RIGHT RIM WIDTH - Engineerstalk : Engineerstalk


-Tim-
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Old 06-24-16, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Regulatori
Just out of curiosity, say you're running a 25mm tire on a 19mm wide rim. Of course it has that lightbulb effect due to the wider tire/narrow rim.

Now say you run that 25mm tire on a 25mm wide rim. The tire of course will flatten out/decrease overall diameter.

Was the change in diameter noticeable to any of you that ride wider rims?

I'm about to build a set of wheels and thinking of going 25mm wide/25mm tire. On a 19mm rim, that 25mm tire is a hair away from the brake bridge in the rear and the barely clears the lower fork crown in the front. Width is fine. I want to go with a 25mm rim because I heard I've heard it almost feels like you're riding tubs....but if it also squishes the tire flatter/gives more clearance, that would be an even extra benefit.
Personal experience:

Schwalbe Kojak 700 x 35 on 23mm outer width rim = barely 32mm wide
Schwalbe Kojak 100 x 35 on 32mm outer width rim = 37++mm wide

Yes, there is a corresponding height change as well.

Yes, they ride better and corner better on the wide rims.

Wider rims increase air volume, a very good thing.

Wider rim + same tire = improved aero.

Last edited by SquidPuppet; 06-24-16 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 06-24-16, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
I ride 25's on a rim with 17.2mm inside width. There is no noticeable light bulb effect.

There was a discussion about this on another forum. Some claimed to have experienced it - tire folding over and squirming around on a too narrow rim. The consensus was that with 25's you have to drop below a 17mm inside width rim to feel it. 23mm tires should be limited to 15mm inside width rims.

There are actually ISO standards based on real world testing for rim vs tire width.

I think the light bulb effect should be less of a concern for the OP than is blowing the tire off the rim with a tire too narrow or a rim too wide. The ISO standards state that a 21mm internal width rim should only be used with tires 35mm and up.

THE RIGHT TYRE WIDTH ON THE RIGHT RIM WIDTH - Engineerstalk : Engineerstalk


-Tim-
IMO their chart is too cautious on the wide rim tolerance and WAY too liberal on the narrow side.

I mean, they are engineers, and I'm not, but a 62mm tire on a 19mm rim is OK?

And I'm operating in the EXTREMELY unsafe zone with a 35mm tire on a 27mm rim?



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Old 06-24-16, 09:35 AM
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FWIW, I've been running 38mm tires on a 24mm outside width rim for the last year or so on an SSCX type bike with no problems.

edit: I should probably add that I'm not racing or anything like that, just road commuting and some occasional weekend dirt/gravel riding.
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Old 06-24-16, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by 50voltphantom
Another neat thing about running the same width rim as the tire you run is that you can remove the wheel without having to release the brake. Pretty minor, but I like it.
It's often said that wider rims are some kind of "revolution". My thinking -- it's just that rim widths are catching up to the wider tires we're now using.

Rewind to 30-40 years ago, and 18-23mm tires on 20mm rims were the standard for road bikes. So with the tire being roughly the same width as the rim, you had the same aero benefit and ability to remove/install the wheel without needing to touch the brakes that we talk about now.
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Old 06-24-16, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by SquidPuppet
IMO their chart is too cautious on the wide rim tolerance and WAY too liberal on the narrow side.

I mean, they are engineers, and I'm not, but a 62mm tire on a 19mm rim is OK?

And I'm operating in the EXTREMELY unsafe zone with a 35mm tire on a 27mm rim?



I thought about this after I posted and realized that their recommendations are probably very conservative.

My point really was about the 'light bulb effect." I think people worry about it too much.
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Old 06-24-16, 01:51 PM
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Anyone having a hard time installing 23/25 width tires on 23/24 width rims or is it just me? I've never struggled installing tires on 19 width rims, but now I always feel like throwing the wheel at the wall when trying to install tires
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Old 06-24-16, 02:04 PM
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You guys are running some pretty wide tires. I've never put anything wider than 23 on, except I borrrowed a 25 from a friend the other night, even that difference is kinda weirding me out.
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Old 06-24-16, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jacobsever
You guys are running some pretty wide tires. I've never put anything wider than 23 on, except I borrrowed a 25 from a friend the other night, even that difference is kinda weirding me out.
Everyone is going to 25's for the road. Many pro teams have made the switch. There is a lot of hype around it and I decided to see for myself.

I purchased two pair Vittoria Rubino Pro III Slick tires, one pair 23mm and the other 25mm. I tried them back to back - same wheel, bike, tubes, pressure on the same day. Rode a few miles on the 23's, then switched to the 25's and back to the 23's. I could tell the difference in comfort and pedal effort as soon as I started pedaling the 25's. Going back to the 23's and I was like, "Why?"

The only downside is they are a bit tight sliding past the brake pads.

The technical reason has to do with sidewall flex and the length of the contact patch. The contact patch of either tire is equal in area but is wider/shorter on 25's and narrower/longer on 23's. More sidewall has to flex on 23's. Sidewall flex is what increases rolling resistance.


I wonder what kind of bike the OP has that he wants to run 25mm wheels.


-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 06-24-16 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 06-24-16, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH

The technical reason has to do with sidewall flex and the length of the contact patch. The contact patch of either tire is equal in area but is wider/shorter on 25's and narrower/longer on 23's. More sidewall has to flex on 23's. Sidewall flex is what increases rolling resistance.


I wonder what kind of bike the OP has that he wants to run 25mm wheels.


-Tim-

On that note, here is a good read about air pressure and what is "faster", hard or soft tires.

Tire Pressure - Stop Guessing And Read The Science | TRS Triathlon
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Old 06-24-16, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
Everyone is going to 25's for the road. Many pro teams have made the switch. There is a lot of hype around it and I decided to see for myself.

I purchased two pair Vittoria Rubino Pro III Slick tires, one pair 23mm and the other 25mm. I tried them back to back - same wheel, bike, tubes, pressure on the same day. Rode a few miles on the 23's, then switched to the 25's and back to the 23's. I could tell the difference in comfort and pedal effort as soon as I started pedaling the 25's. Going back to the 23's and I was like, "Why?"

The only downside is they are a bit tight sliding past the brake pads.

The technical reason has to do with sidewall flex and the length of the contact patch. The contact patch of either tire is equal in area but is wider/shorter on 25's and narrower/longer on 23's. More sidewall has to flex on 23's. Sidewall flex is what increases rolling resistance.


I wonder what kind of bike the OP has that he wants to run 25mm wheels.


-Tim-
Right now I have a giant Bowery(I know, not very fancy) that I'm looking to upgrade a little at a time. I was looking into some wheels and there was a choice between 23 and 25 widths so I wondered if anyone had any experience with them.

Last edited by mrwonton; 06-24-16 at 06:58 PM. Reason: Damned autocorrect.
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Old 06-27-16, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by SquidPuppet
On that note, here is a good read about air pressure and what is "faster", hard or soft tires.

Tire Pressure - Stop Guessing And Read The Science | TRS Triathlon
Good article.

I really like the 23mm archetypes with 25mm tires on most road. I'm eager to try my new 24mm wide Kinlin rims with 45mm Nomads on the Mash.
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Old 06-27-16, 02:31 PM
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I put 28mm on my Fuji Track which I ride on the road, paved trails, and around my area. I like the larger tires as they take bumps better.
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