Crankset Installation Issues/Non-capatbility
 

So I'm in the process of building up 2 different bikes. I've been wanting to be a lot more hands on, and do as much as I can myself this time around.

First Bike: KHS Aero Track

I purchased a Campagnolo Record Pista crankset and a Phill Wood bottom bracket. This is the first time I ever tried installing my own bottom bracket and crankset. The adjustable cups threw me for a bit of a loop, and I only had 1 Phil bb tool to use. I kept adjusting, but either the inside of the spider hits the chainstay, or the non drive side arm hits the stay.

This is how far out the bottom bracket cup had to sit so the spider had clearance.

http://i.imgur.com/CzsKDsf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0kJjZ8g.jpg

Except, when the cups are positioned like that...my left crank arm hits. And it's not even close, it hits by quite a lot.

http://i.imgur.com/GxWWLjP.jpg

I chalked this up to user error. I've never installed a bottom bracket before, let alone a Phil Wood bottom bracket. I had installed the crankset 3 times, after continuously adjusting the bottom bracket cups. There might have been a sweet spot where I'd get clearance on both sides, but I got annoyed. I ended up ordering the Campagnolo Pista bottom bracket, so I can take that out of the equation. It's fixed, and there's only one way to install it. No adjustments. I'm hoping it works.

Second Bike: Cinelli Vigorelli

So, I have everything ready for this build. All I have to do is buy a chain, adjust the headset, and throw some tape on the bars. But...dun dun dun...issues with the crankset...again.

I got the Miche Primato crankset with the Miche bottom bracket. So they are matching, they're meant to be used together. Same thing happens. I installed the bottom bracket, then installed the crankset. The more I tightened the crankset on, the closer and closer the spider got to my chain stay. I stopped right before it ended up hitting. Like, you could probably slide 1 or 2 pieces of paper in between the gap. However, because of the flex in the frame, when I sit on it and spin the arms, it starts rubbing.

http://i.imgur.com/5aos7c4.jpg

Here you can hear it rub. It's only 1 out of the 5 arms of the spider that do it too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW1a...ature=youtu.be

This one I'm also chalking up to user error. I'd rather blame myself and think I just did something wrong, than admit the crank won't work with my frame. The Miche bottom bracket is 107mm. Would getting a 109, and adding 1mm to each side allow enough clearance, while keeping the chainline a safe distance?

I'm just really confused, as I've owned 4 bikes in the past, and none of them have ever had issues with chain stay clearance. I've even owned another Vigorelli before, and had a cheap Eighth Inch crankset on it. The issue isn't the size of the chainring, as that's not hitting, but the inner part of the spider/chainring bolt area itself.

Any help, suggestions, ideas would greatly help. I plan on taking the Vigorelli to a local bike shop, but I honestly don't know how much I trust the "fixie" shop's knowledge around here. I've had bike shops do some strange things to my bikes in the past.

Also, if it comes down to these cranksets just not being compatible with the frames...how do I know what will work? Short of spending the money to buy a crankset, only to have a failed installation, then have to try and return or sell them afterwards?

Thanks

First appears to be a spindle length issue. Second, I'm thinking maybe a ISO/JIS issue?

Have you double checked to confirm that you bought the correct spindle length? It seems weird that you are having compatibility issues with "Track" cranks and "Track" frames.

Not all cranksets play nicely with all frames. Both cranksets in question have a very narrow Q-factor and clearance issues are pretty common.

However - my wife has the older ISO version of Miche cranks on her Vig and clearance is fine using a 107mm ISO spindle.

Yeah, the Miche setup was purchased together, and they are made for one another.

http://i.imgur.com/LsbC0MV.jpg

The Phil Wood is a little different. The Campy crankset requires a 111mm spindle, and the Phil wood is 110.5mm. Which shouldn't really matter, but I'm hoping when the Campy bb comes in, everything will work.

I forget to mention this in the original post, but both frames are pretty small. 48cm for the KHS (according to the eBay listing I bought it from), and the Cinelli is 50cm. But surely they wouldn't build frames that aren't compatible with cranksets. I don't want to be stuck using cheap, $50 Origin8 cranksets on these guys.

There's not going to be any difference going from a 110.5mm spindle to 111mm. We're talking about .25mm per side here.

Also...if the Miche BB you have is adjustable, it's ISO. The JIS version isn't adjustable from side to side and looks like this:

http://cdn.modernbike.com/Product_Im...0922041033.jpg

If your Miche crank arms are the newer JIS version, there's your problem right there.

Hence why I said "shouldn't really matter." The biggest difference is the adjustable cups, and where everything sits in the bottom bracket shell.

Yet you still bought a Campy BB? Seems pointless if you know there's going to be no difference.

The difference is where the bottom bracket sits in the shell. The cups on the Phil Wood don't have a fixed position/setting. I didn't have enough patience of pulling the cranks on and off a million times to adjust the bottom bracket to the point where I would have clearance on both sides of the frame.

By purchasing the Campy bb, I simply install it and go. There's no adjustments to be made. The cups can only be in one position.

It's really not hard to center a Phil BB, but OK.

Judging by the clearance issues you're having and how far out your drive-side cup needs to be for the spider to clear your chainstay, a fixed-cup Campy BB probably won't fix your problem because that crankset likely isn't compatible with that frame. Those KHS frames are notorious for having clearance issues with a lot of cranksets because the stays are fat and not dimpled.

At any rate, I'm pretty sure you're mixing a JIS crankset with an ISO spindle when it comes to your Miche setup.

I added a pic to my post above. If you are certain your crank arms are JIS and your BB doesn't look like the pic, you have the wrong one.

I'll double check when I get home, but I'm pretty sure both are JIS.

And if the Campy bb doesn't work, what you would do yourself personally? Just ditch the Campagnolo idea and go with a different crankset entirely? (Which would be a bummer, as I was going to get a Campy headset, and build wheels laced to Campy hubs for the rest of the build).

There's a lot of confusion since Miche switched from ISO to JIS. Like I said, if the BB doesn't have a flanged drive side cup it is ISO. To my knowledge, Miche does not make an adjustable version of their newer JIS bottom bracket.

Keep the Phil 110.5 BB and get some Sugino 75s. Record Pistas flex like wet noodles anyway.

This surprises me. I'd not be surprised when people convert "other purpose" bikes to SS and try to make a track crank fit. Or guys like me who replace ashtabula cranks on wide tire frames, you'd expect to have some issues to deal with. It just seems like "Track frame" makers AND "track crank" makers would design their products to specs that would eliminate the chance of lost sales. Not necessarily an official industry standard, just with some fudge factor built in. Weird.

All road derailleurs aren't compatible with all road shifters and/or cassettes. That's just the way the cookie crumbles.

Ooo, nice. I've never really looked into Sugino 75s before, but that's pretty awesome that they're ISO and I could use the Phil bb with them.

So it turns out I do have the JIS bb, with the JIS crankset. Should be compatible.

http://i.imgur.com/ZBy31Xp.jpg

So I went to a local bike shop, and grabbed a Shimano BB-UN55 in a 110mm, assuming the extra 1.5mm would add enough length to clear...but I was wrong.

http://i.imgur.com/Du2ttFT.jpg

So Miche recommends using a 107 with their crank, and not even a 110 works for me. I'm so ****ing confused why nothing is working on any of my builds, and it's getting beyond frustrating.

Sit down for this one. Ready? The Shimano UN55 spindle (in the 110 size) is offset toward the NDS by about 3.5mms. Which positions the Drive Side spindle to LESS THAN where a symmetrical "104mm" BB would place it.

A symmetrical 110mm BB might actually work for you. MIGHT.

Holy ****, I had no idea. Thanks so much that info. I just walked into a LBS and asked for a 110 and that's what they gave me. I guess I'll order that Andel bb on Retro, assuming it's symmetrical.

Happy to be of service. :p I am curious to see if the 110 will work though. 1.5mm aint much. Good luck.

Correction: The Shimano 110mm BB still places the DS crankarm a few mm farther out than a symmetrical 103/104 would, but not by much. I'd go straight for a 113mm on this bike and see how things look. :thumb:

I suck at math. :)

I should have credited you for the chart too, sorry.

OP can haz all the bottom brackets :lol:

No worries. I'm happy that people are getting use out of it. :thumb: