79pmooney

But! That dropout is missing the last inch on the bottom. That's probably 3 teeth difference you can't use. Why? If you are tooling from scratch, making it right isn't any more harder. Mine handles an 11 tooth difference easily and I think I can stuff one tooth more in.

(Sorry, my custom dropouts are machined ti. Not useful as a production run. Never thought about it, but wouldn't even if I had. I don't see a big run on ti fix gears/single speeds happening.)

Ben

DiabloScott

An inch? I don't think so - I don't know how much of a tooth difference I could accomodate, but they're as long as any road bike dropouts I've ever seen. This is a Trek District S.

ethet 

@79pmooney To me, one of Surly's big selling points for the Straggler is its ability to be easily converted to a single-speed with purpose-designed front-facing dropouts:

Granted, a derailleur hanger remains—and therefore it isn't 'pure' as a single-speed (fixed or not) non-track bike—though do you have an opinion of their design for a forward-facing single-speed dropout?

DiabloScott

They market this as a Cross Check for disc brakes - and the Cross Check has normal horizontal dropouts that work great for single speeds.

I can't believe there's much demand for SSFG bikes with disc brakes... but I guess Surly's got the market all to themselves.

ethet 

I apologize. I was deep in this segment of the market recently while trying to find a new frame, and for some reason 'Straggler' and 'Singlespeed' had been pounded into my head. Probably because I prefer to ride roadish fixed gears and this was seen as a point for marketing to someone looking for frames in this area.

79pmooney

Much better photo! I couldn't see the lower portion on the first. That's a decent fix gear dropout. Probably a 6-7 tooth difference. (But 6-7 teeth neither allows all the available 1/8" cogs to be used on one chain without messing with it nor is that difference big enough for serious hill work. It wouldn't have cost them one cent more to make the slot a full 12 teeth long and open vertically down so a tire that is big enough to come close tho the seattube pulls out cleanly.)

So again, why? If it cost no more to tool up and do it right, why not?

Ben

79pmooney

Better. (See my comments in the post above.) The forward facing adjuster screw would be excellent for keeping the axle from slipping but would be a pain if you regularly flipped the wheel. (Edit: with a decent peanut butter wench or Pedros Trixie and less than track sprinter strength, nothing is needed to keep the axle from slipping except a little diligence.) I'm guessing the intent is to use a disc brake here and therefore no wheel flips. Bass ackwards if you ask me. On a fix gear, the two cogs can be really useful and the quick flip a blessing. (See any early last century Tour de France racing bike.) That fix gear will probably never need the power of a disc for the rear wheel.

Really, my only experience is 100,000 miles of fix gear riding, 17,000 on that bike of my design with the "L" shaped dropout. It is still a joy to use. I'll go out on windy days with 16 and 17, days when I might do a climb or two with 16 and say 20 and on serious days, 17 and 23 with a spare 12 and the chainwhip. (Even the 24t cog I just got.) These two bikes probably wouldn't even be able to handle both the 17 and 23 and certainly not the 12 without messing with chain. No way am I doing anything like adding or subtracting links when I am goofy for a 1000' climb and about to do a 45 mph descent pedaling fixed!)

Yes, my riding style and love is outside the norm. But it truly fun! Too bad the investment is so high.

Ben

ethet 

Thank you for the thoughts... There is a lot in your post that only furthers my curiosity as to what this new Rivendell frame will be. (A severe critique of track-ends on non-track single-speeds has long been needed.)

It now makes me wonder if this new thing might have front-facing horizontal dropouts. Your arguments and the thought that he must have learned many lessons from the Quickbeam give me hope that he might have something revolutionary in the works—and not just a Roadeo with Waterford track ends, I can buy that frame down the street.

john_mct

Soma Wolverine comes with a pretty long horizontal drop system, would love to see them adopt a pared down lighter version on their Rush frame. My wife has an Analog MTB from Soma and there is almost three inches of adjustability.

Wspsux

Thot.

DiabloScott

Funky! Although it looks like the only reason for this is the disc brakes... plain old horizontal dropouts still seem like a better choice for plain old SSFG.




Bonus - saw my neighbor riding his old Quickbeam to work this morning.

john_mct

Yeah, it's definitely intended for easy disc brake use but I'd still like to see the concept applied to SS/FG. Long horizontal drop with a built in set screw would be nifty and really open up the gearing options. I do like the ease of wheel removal with the adjustable dropout system Soma uses, plus you don't have to mess with resetting the proper chain tension every time you drop the rear wheel to fix a flat or change tires...

79pmooney

Getting there, but ... if you ride this frame fg/ss, no disc brake and want to flip the wheel, you have to deal with 4 hex bolts ever time. That will get old really fast. I like the slot length. Looks like the travel is about the same as mine. (My slot is a little more than 2", giving me ~1 3/4" travel with a 10mm axle.)

I use a nutted track hub but have a really nice routine for flipping wheels. I carry the Pedros Trixie in straps under my seatbag with one velcro at the back holding it in place. It is completely secure but comes on and off fast. Loosen each nut 1/2 turn, slide wheel forward, pick the chain up with the spanner end of the wrench, pull the wheel out and drop the chain on the chain peg. (A simple pan head screw threaded into the dropout - Dave Levy/TiCycles' idea; very simple and works beautifully.) Turn the wheel around, pick up the chain, slide the wheel in, drop the chain on the cog, pull the wheel back with my left hand at the left chainstay pulling the tire back and to the left, tighten the right hub nut, straighten the wheel, tighten the left hub nut, check chain slack with the wrench; it is almost always perfect, replace wrench under the saddle bag and go. Takes less time than it did to write this. With 15mm track nuts and an 8" wrench, it is simple, easy, no torque measurement needed. The usable variation of torque is huge.

Do those 4 allen bolts in fried brain/stupid mode and they and the wrench are likely to take a real beating over time. (And trust me, after 1000' climbs on a 42-23, you are pretty stupid.) I trust Surly uses a standard bolt you can run to Ace hardware and replace. Still ...

Now Surly could have designed the dropout to have the chainstay come in above, have the front open and use the standard width. (Aluminum spacers on the bolts they use would cost and weigh almost nothing.) Then, if someone wanted to go fix gear, they could easily.

My pet peeve: sometimes I feel I am the only person on this planet who has ever wanted a fix gear that can go up and down mountains powered by 60 yo legs (and crotch - downhill) and not be a totally crazy ride with long term injuries. Going down really big hills on a 42-12 is a blast! Going up on a 42-23 is hard but not crazy. Doing either of these on a 41-17 feels like flogging your body- both during and later; trust me. The bike that can do both is not hard to make. I know. I have one. With the popularity of fix gears, why hasn't someone else done it? Or an I that unique?

Maybe I am.

Ben

johnnytheboy

i sold my straggler because of those dropouts.

Wspsux

off topic but my Riv arrived today!

ethet 

I had a recent New Bike Process and it took me a lot to decide against the Clem... Such a nifty bike. Congratulations!

I would be really interested in learning about your impressions of the bicycle.

hairnet

I love sliders and wish I had known about the Wolverine when I ordered my Straggler.

My mountain bike was originally a single speed with these sliding dropouts, they can take a beating, are easy to use and never gave me any problems. Sliders are the obvious choice for SS/FG with disc brakes.

JohnDThompson 

Looks like a modern take on an old design:

john_mct

I put many happy miles on my Kona Unit as well...


Sorry for the thread derail everyone...Rivendell bikes are cool, wish they had a dedicated SS frame

hairnet

Looking good