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Is my gearing/speed off?

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Is my gearing/speed off?

Old 01-27-18, 12:54 PM
  #26  
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When it comes down to it, spending $15-20 each for cogs is still a pretty good deal. They last a long time, and most of us here have ended up with extra cogs lying around from trial and error.

I happen to think my rear wheel looks cool permanently sporting a 16T on one side and 18T on the other.
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There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
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Old 01-27-18, 11:57 PM
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An oversimplified but sound approach is this:

If your legs are getting tired first, you need a lower gear. If your heart and lungs tire first, you need a higher one.

I've always been a pretty good cyclist, but I'm not very powerful. So it seems like I'd be one to choose a ratio too low. Alas, like many folks, I tend to err on the too-high side when choosing gears. I've learned how to sprint to get up short hills, and this helps a lot. It doesn't help for long rides on flat terrain when I've set up a single speed or fixed gear with a ratio a bit too high. I should be working to get good at spinning high cadences for an extended timeframe, and choosing ratios just a bit lower.
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Old 01-28-18, 02:20 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by J.Oxley View Post
@rEVOLVED









<---
Sorry, I was on my phone so location wasn't showing up.
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Old 01-28-18, 02:24 PM
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Can anybody recommend the proper tool (I'm assuming chain whip) for getting my 16t off and putting on my new 17t? I have a Park Tool HCW-5, but I've never even touched it and can't remember what I even bough it for. I know this tool alone won't be enough, but I don't know what else to buy. I'll need to get the lock ring off, the 16t off, and then put on the 17t and put the lock ring back on.
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Old 01-28-18, 02:41 PM
  #30  
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I haven't read all the the threads here. I can tell you what was the norm in the 1970s for winter training in January. It was gears like 42-18,maybe 42-17. Much, much lower gears than you are riding. I am about to go out for a 50 mile and I put on a 43-17. (Some small hills, but mostly flat. I also have 300 miles under my belt so far this month.)

I have the advantage over you in that I have been riding and riding fix gear for a long time and am much more comfortable with a quick cadence than you. But I only got there by doing this spinning. In the gear you are riding now, you will never get there. Put on a 19 and ride it until you can regularly go 19-20 mph before going to an 18. (It will be frustrating, trust me. And it will be SO worth it!) Next January, you will have far better spin and you can do your early miles on a 20 and reap the benefits of a still better spin all year.

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Old 01-28-18, 02:51 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by rEVOLVED View Post
Can anybody recommend the proper tool (I'm assuming chain whip) for getting my 16t off and putting on my new 17t? I have a Park Tool HCW-5, but I've never even touched it and can't remember what I even bough it for. I know this tool alone won't be enough, but I don't know what else to buy. I'll need to get the lock ring off, the 16t off, and then put on the 17t and put the lock ring back on.
The Pedros Trixie is a very useful tool for both the hub nuts and lockrings. For the chain whip, the chain on it has to be compatible with your cogs, either 3/32" or 1/8" If the chain is smaller than the proper chain for your cogs, it will not work at all. (You can change the chain portion of most chainwhips with a common chain riveter or you can replace the pin with a small bolt. Get as big as will fit. You are asking a lot of it. Modern 7, 8 and higher chainwhips are useless for any fix gear until the chain is changed.)

48-17 is still 76". That's huge. (See my post above.)

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Old 01-29-18, 12:50 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post

48-17 is still 76". That's huge. (See my post above.)

Ben
+1

Still too tall IMO. To spin, rEVOLVED will need to be maintaining 20 mph.
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Old 01-29-18, 01:02 PM
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I swapped bikes before going out yesterday (from fendered to not - a rare day of dry roads). Good bike was set up 42-18. Did 44 miles on it in a medium crosswind and was quite glad I went that low on the gear. Felt the ride when I got home, felt my lungs cleaned out. Was passed by two riders decades younger and passed several. Decent showing and a bigger gear would not have helped.

Ben
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Old 01-29-18, 02:56 PM
  #34  
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The cheapest way to try different cog sizes is the miche pista cog carrier.
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Old 01-29-18, 03:13 PM
  #35  
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I use the Miche system on one side of my hub at the moment. It's pretty cool, cheap cogs and swapping them is much easier. I feel like splined cogs would be a lot more popular if only there was just any kind of standardization for them.
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Old 01-29-18, 03:30 PM
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I use miche cogs too and change gearing as my fitness improves throughout the season starting with a 44/18 in the spring and ending with a 46/16 in the fall. Three chainrings 44,45,46 and three cogs 16,17,18 gives you a range of around 11 gear inches from ~65-76 with 1-2 inch increments.
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Old 01-29-18, 08:42 PM
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Sounds like a nice system. I just switch back and forth between 58" and 71" each year.
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Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
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Old 01-29-18, 10:16 PM
  #38  
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When I built up the Volare I started at 45x16. Seemed like a good number till I got my ass handed to me by a headwind and rolling hills combo my first time out. So I downshifted, swapping on a 42t chainring. This took me from ~76 to ~71 gear inches.

Based on @79pmooney and @SquidPuppet's numbers above (and the rather angry messages my body is sending me) I'm still running too tall and the fact I'm spinning out on the flats isn't a gearing issue so much as an "I clearly suck at spinning" issue. So with all this in mind I have two questions for whoever might be interested:

1. As a total novice to SS who's about to install his first FG cog after this post, what should my target gear-inches number be? Mid- to high-60s? Even lower?

2. What cadence should I be aiming to be able to carry on more or less indefinitely? 90? 100? More? Or if you prefer, what do you guys pull off under normal conditions?

I'm slowly reconciling myself to the idea that I'm gonna have to sacrifice top-end speed for a while. Not real thrilled, but everything has its price.
@rEVOLVED Sorry to pile my questions into your thread, but they're topical and might help us both out.
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Old 01-29-18, 10:56 PM
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@J.Oxley, this is a good read if you haven't yet: Uncle Sixty's Gearing Primer for Newbs
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Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
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Old 01-29-18, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
@J.Oxley, this is a good read if you haven't yet: Uncle Sixty's Gearing Primer for Newbs
I'm now 100 posts in. Big thanks.
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Old 01-30-18, 12:23 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by J.Oxley View Post
When I built up the Volare I started at 45x16. Seemed like a good number till I got my ass handed to me by a headwind and rolling hills combo my first time out. So I downshifted, swapping on a 42t chainring. This took me from ~76 to ~71 gear inches.

Based on @79pmooney and @SquidPuppet's numbers above (and the rather angry messages my body is sending me) I'm still running too tall and the fact I'm spinning out on the flats isn't a gearing issue so much as an "I clearly suck at spinning" issue. So with all this in mind I have two questions for whoever might be interested:

1. As a total novice to SS who's about to install his first FG cog after this post, what should my target gear-inches number be? Mid- to high-60s? Even lower?

2. What cadence should I be aiming to be able to carry on more or less indefinitely? 90? 100? More? Or if you prefer, what do you guys pull off under normal conditions?

I'm slowly reconciling myself to the idea that I'm gonna have to sacrifice top-end speed for a while. Not real thrilled, but everything has its price.
@rEVOLVED Sorry to pile my questions into your thread, but they're topical and might help us both out.
1. 67-70" is a good place to start. Lower if you can but it is a fact that experienced fix gear riders can ride lower gears than newbies even though the newbies need those low gears more.

2. Cadence is a meaningless concept on a fix gear. You pick your gear based on conditioning, skill and the roads and conditions. Once you start rolling, you ride the "effort" that is appropriate for that ride, your intentions, the conditions and your body. Your RPM is whatever it is. Same with heartrate. (Effort in quotes because it is not a number you can measure with cadence, a speedometer or power meter. It can be considered the percentage of what your body and mindset can do at that moment. Uphill it may well be perceived as breathing level or leg burn. On the flat, it may be mental grind. Downhill it may well be a level of comfort, both for your saddle area and bike control. I think loosely of rides as being perhaps 75% ride. On that ride I am riding roughly 75% of whatever that effort or limiting factor is.

That said, there are tricks. Rolling hills for example. Downhill go easy UNTIL the hill is about to bottom out, then go up. At that instant, go as hard as you can! Keep it poured on! Make those feet fly! Come out of the saddle but fight to keep the spin as far up the hill as you can. Only then do you go back to your percentage. (And your heartbeat and breathing will be wild. But you just have a few more feet of hill to go, then you will back off and repeat.

Start as low as you can. Move up the gears one cog at a time over the summer as the hills get easier. Start lower next year. (You will have new pedaling skills and this won't be nearly as hard or bad as it seems now. And you will benefit all next year. Promise.)

Ben
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Old 01-30-18, 12:48 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
2. Cadence is a meaningless concept on a fix gear. You pick your gear based on conditioning, skill and the roads and conditions. Once you start rolling, you ride the "effort" that is appropriate for that ride, your intentions, the conditions and your body. Your RPM is whatever it is. Same with heartrate. (Effort in quotes because it is not a number you can measure with cadence, a speedometer or power meter. It can be considered the percentage of what your body and mindset can do at that moment. Uphill it may well be perceived as breathing level or leg burn. On the flat, it may be mental grind. Downhill it may well be a level of comfort, both for your saddle area and bike control. I think loosely of rides as being perhaps 75% ride. On that ride I am riding roughly 75% of whatever that effort or limiting factor is.
Good description. This was my basis for running higher gears inches. 83 GI gets me through the long downhills around here much more comfortably, albeit, with still plenty of crazy spinning. Uphill I'm fine grinding out of the saddle the whole time.

I, as well as a lot of folks its seems, typically run higher gear inches fixed and just suffer. Even more so than SS do you forget about what the bike is up to and focus on your fitness.
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Old 01-30-18, 09:50 AM
  #43  
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Well for now, I want to get the 17t on to replace my 16t. Might still be too high for a beginner, given my 48t chain ring, but that's okay. Problem is, 16t that I'm taking off is a 3/32 and 17t that's going on is 1/8. So what kind of chain whip do I need?
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Old 01-30-18, 11:00 AM
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You will need a 1/8 chain whip. Do you also have a 1/8 chain?
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Old 01-30-18, 03:47 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by prooftheory View Post
You will need a 1/8 chain whip. Do you also have a 1/8 chain?
Yeah, my chain is currently 1/8. The 1/8 whip will remove my old 3/32 cog just fine?
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Old 01-30-18, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by rEVOLVED View Post
Yeah, my chain is currently 1/8. The 1/8 whip will remove my old 3/32 cog just fine?
Yup. I don't think it would work for a cassette, but it will definitely work for fixed cog.
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Old 02-10-18, 09:53 PM
  #47  
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Going to try and not start a new thread since that seems silly... Sorry to sort of resurrect this one.

I've decided that simply swapping my 16t cog for a 17t will make little difference, and I think I'm going to try to lose a bigger chunk of gear inches at once. Currently running 48/16, and thinking of going down to somewhere in the range of 42 or 44 in the front. Hoping to end up around 70 gear inches.

Question - I need a super affordable 130 BCD chainring that I can install primarily for trying out my new gearing. I want to get my gearing right with cheap components before buying anything nicer. More than anything... I want to get my gearing right.
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Old 02-10-18, 11:08 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by rEVOLVED View Post
Going to try and not start a new thread since that seems silly... Sorry to sort of resurrect this one.

I've decided that simply swapping my 16t cog for a 17t will make little difference, and I think I'm going to try to lose a bigger chunk of gear inches at once. Currently running 48/16, and thinking of going down to somewhere in the range of 42 or 44 in the front. Hoping to end up around 70 gear inches.

Question - I need a super affordable 130 BCD chainring that I can install primarily for trying out my new gearing. I want to get my gearing right with cheap components before buying anything nicer. More than anything... I want to get my gearing right.


Remember, even if you get the gearing perfect on the first stab, it will only be perfect temporarily. As your fitness and technique improve, it will become too easy. That's why folks have recommended cheap cogs for the experimentation phase.
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Old 02-11-18, 12:22 AM
  #49  
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You can get old 130 bcd Sugino rings on eBay for cheap.
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Old 02-11-18, 08:14 PM
  #50  
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If your goal is to get faster and stronger, you needs to deal with it.

Endurance and Speed (power) take time to build up.

48/16 is not so tall at all for your range. OP kinda 210 and big legs, that (in theory) should have pretty big watts by natural. And OP says he rides flat paved path with winds, actually that excellent way to train your speed! dealing with the winds is so normal.

Mash********** Spin********** huh, why bother********** I personally not really care, mash sounds less efficient than spin blah blah blah BUT most serious fast riders MASH TO WIN. not spin.

BUT spinning will make you efficient pedaling on the bike and techniques.

You just needs to concentrate and push yourself. And you will reaps the reward.
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