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Carlton vintage lugged frame!!!

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Carlton vintage lugged frame!!!

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Old 06-09-18, 04:53 PM
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Senrab62
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Carlton vintage lugged frame!!!





Check this out. I scored a frameset in my size. I've been looking for a lugged track frame in my size FOREVER and was about to settle for a Murphy cycles Marty frameset (they are great looking, not settling really IMHO) when this beauty came up locally.

No known year yet, but great overall. Campag headset. Some unknown BB for now. 531 butted tubing. It does have patina but I like it.

Does anyone have any knowledge of vintage track bikes? Coolest thing to me is the braze on fender eyelets on front and rear. No idea on full build yet but already started ordering parts I don't need LOL. Any ideas or suggestions?

Last edited by Senrab62; 06-09-18 at 04:55 PM. Reason: Can't spell or text well LOL
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Old 06-09-18, 05:09 PM
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bikemig 
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This bike is beautiful and a heck of a find. You will want to post it in the C&V forum if you want more info about the bike (and more drooling by posters!).
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Old 06-09-18, 08:03 PM
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scottlox
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very nice
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Old 06-09-18, 08:37 PM
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j_e_r_e_m_y
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Damn, that is sweet! Can't wait to see the complete build
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Old 06-09-18, 08:37 PM
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Senrab62
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Just for documentation. Owner to the previous owner had a Tange sealed Bb installed which I removed while also bruising my thumb.

I have a campag style modern crank on the way. Debating having wheels built or buying something off the shelf.

Is this too vintage for a Soma highway one for bars?

Thanks all
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Old 06-10-18, 09:14 AM
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Very nysss! I noticed your cross-post in the Vintage sub-forum too, but regard this one as more "my place" so I'll comment here

It is your frame & of course you are entitled build it however you want, according to your own budget, but...

You seemed to miss the point that most of those vintage guys are telling that you may have a very special frame and that just throwing modern or otherwise "incorrect" parts on it doesn't really do it justice.

I'm no expert on Raleigh/Carlton stuff so I won't presume to analyze your frame for age/model/authenticity but I can tell you for a fact that there is a ton of Carlton info out there on the interwebz, including several very detail-oriented Raleigh & Carlton facebook groups that you should investigate, who would be happy to see your frame if you are interested in really learning about it. If you are not - I hope you enjoy building it however you choose & riding it too...
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Old 06-10-18, 05:33 PM
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Senrab62
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Don't do Facebook at all, but thanks. C & V guys are walking encyclopedias so they've been helpful. Have a local guy who has a decent amount of parts for wheel build and stem options. Saddle will be older Brooks pro.

Thanks all for the feedback

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Old 06-10-18, 05:39 PM
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I wouldn't worry about making everything period correct. Period correct handlebars on that bike would probably be some ridiculously deep old school track drop that would be hell to ride pretty much anywhere. If it were mine I'd probably go with a traditional bend road bar like Cinelli Giro 64 or Nitto B115 with some nice hooded levers, but if HWY1 is your preference, go for it. Whatever makes it feel good to ride.
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Old 06-10-18, 06:54 PM
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Thanks Sean,
​​​​​​I do plan to have it at least look period correct, but comfy bars that assist in me riding are far more important.

I appreciate the history and story behind the frame, but no need to drop a grand if I have not ridden the bike!

It'll turn out great and be taylored to me. I am fortunate it looks like I have a setup for a Brampton high flange for hubs and possibly some vintage rims as well. That coupled with some modern tires and slacker angles hopefully will be a joy to ride. Everything else will come together.

Appreciate the positive feedback. Feel lucky to have a kick-ass vintage frame and not have to settle for something mainstream.

Also I hope when all said and done I am under 25lbs! Not featherweight but I'm also 230 so weight is not an issue for me.
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Old 06-11-18, 09:24 AM
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Nice score. Hell, I'd do the HWY1. Compact drop that works with a quill stem? Yes please.
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Old 06-11-18, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 50voltphantom View Post
Nice score. Hell, I'd do the HWY1. Compact drop that works with a quill stem? Yes please.
You're right. 26.0 is for road. My assumption is that it might be 25.4. I think someone sells a modern bend 25.4. illI have to look into it.
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Old 06-11-18, 08:25 PM
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Quill stems with 26.0 clamps are pretty easy to find.
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Old 06-12-18, 01:18 AM
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Very cool frame, and that mellowed-with-age white paint is effing awesome. If it doesn't come in under 25lbs you did something wrong.
The crown race isn't correct (pic #3 ).
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Old 06-13-18, 09:26 AM
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why do you think this frame would have come stock with some deep track drops? it has fender mounts. why would a track bike need fenders?
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Old 06-13-18, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by motrheadsroadie View Post
why do you think this frame would have come stock with some deep track drops? it has fender mounts. why would a track bike need fenders?
Because it came from the era when a bike was expected to perform multiple tasks. It's a classical road-track machine. You could take this bike and ride to the race on your daily wheels with clinchers, with your sewup "sprint" wheels attached to your handlebars and special bolt- or clip-on fittings near your front dropouts,like this. Upon arrival, removed mudguards and rear brakes and saddlebag, install racing wheels, compete, come back and put it back together and ride home. It also probably would work nicely for grass track racing, depending on how big a tire you can fit.

This is a

Mid-October, 2017 by Russ Fitzgerald, on Flickr]

2002 Mercian inspired by these bikes - another vintage bike to look at for ideas would be any older Holdsworth Typhoons. Or there's this really early Mercian, equipped as it would have been back in the day - and since he had indeed been a cyclist in those years, I'll take his word for it!

While you could go with deep drop bars, I suspect you'll want to trawl through a bunch of old British time trial photos from the 40s and 50s and see what sorts of bars they used.

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Old 06-13-18, 04:57 PM
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path racers arent track bikes.
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Old 06-13-18, 05:29 PM
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Actually, in the original terminology from before WWI, “path racer” was precisely the term used for track bikes, and the old term for dual purpose road and track machines WAS “road-path.” Go back far enough in old British publications and you’ll run into it. “Track” won out because it better described the permanent paved or board surfaces. “Grass track” remained in use for fairs and festivals.

The term “path-racer” as thrown around on the ‘net the last 20 years is used to describe fixed- or single-geared machines ridden on multiple surfaces including unpaved surfaces. It isn’t an accurate term, but oh well.

FWIW I spent several years tracking down the contemporary literature and studying the terminology used. And note - the presence of fender eyelets with rear-opening ends on the OP’s bike indicates multi purpose suitable for road, road time trials and yes, track. Go research it.
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Old 06-13-18, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rustystrings61 View Post
Go research it.
A well written and researched book on the unique British cycling culture, including the significant personalities and hardware is Les Woodland's "This Island Race: Inside 135 Years of British Bike-Racing".
A must read for anyone interested in understanding the unique relationship the British have to the time trials event(s), and where FG/TT still fits in today.

The highly versatile club machine, like the OP's, has been a hallmark of British bike production since the earliest days of the sport.
One bike to get to work on and to compete in the variety of events on the club calendar.
A tradition that continues to this day as exemplified by the Mercian posted by @rustystrings61.

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Old 06-14-18, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Fahrenheit531 View Post
Very cool frame, and that mellowed-with-age white paint is effing awesome. If it doesn't come in under 25lbs you did something wrong.
The crown race isn't correct (pic #3 ).
Bike is likely from the late 50's. If built period correct, a majority of the parts would have been steel and would include a Brooks. To me 25lbs seems about right.

check the thread in the C&V section where there are more learned people than myself regarding vintage British track frames.

I like the color too, it has character. looks to be a refinish, and to me appears to be enamel and not paint actually!
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Old 06-14-18, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by motrheadsroadie View Post
path racers arent track bikes.
They aren't? The original catalogue refers to it as a track bike? Perhaps you were thinking of a different style of track racing?
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