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Iro Jamie Roy Vs. Nyc Cityfixed

Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

Iro Jamie Roy Vs. Nyc Cityfixed

Old 07-28-05, 05:40 AM
  #26  
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I love all this NYCBike hating from the cool cats on this forum. Maybe that's what keeps their ebay prices down - no bidders. I joined this forum to get real answers about the CityFixed, and all I can find out is they won't let me bring a bike into their shop (we have 800 sq ft in Chicago packed with bikes, anyone brings their bike in the next guy can't move), and that they charge ebay'ers a fee for parts sold at half of wholesale.

I've also found that Peripathetic can't find a bike shop in NYC that'll give him free advice, may I suggest reading a book (a really hard to find one like Bicycling's Guide to Repair and Maintenance - only about a billion in print - gave me enough knowledge to start working on my own bike, now I get paid for it).

Speaking of research, a little internet searching will tell you that Maxway Cycles from Taiwan is proud to provide the frames for (amongst many others) Iro and Surly (seems like he got their off the rack track models), no mention of NYCBikes (though I know the cross frame I got from him is made in asia).

So... I have had great customer service from NYCBikes (though I am sure their will be four posters after me to slam all I have said, "I bought a tube from him and he wouldn't give me an overhaul for free"), I have a recreational racer with touring geometry and don't want that in my fixed gear bike, and I would like to hear from anyone who has ridden one, not the echo of people who have read others posts, or the whine of people who think shops should give %$#^ away for free "I always got it for free before when my daddy paid, why won't they give it to me now!"
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Old 07-28-05, 06:36 PM
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I don't like the IRO or the NYCBikes product.

IRO parts spec is very poor IMO. They don't even give you a decent quality cog with their $600 build up.
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Old 07-28-05, 07:13 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by 144 BCD
I don't like the IRO or the NYCBikes product.

IRO parts spec is very poor IMO. They don't even give you a decent quality cog with their $600 build up.

Tony has to make a buck.

And you're statement ignores the buyer side of the market

When people start to take their bikes seriously and pony up that extra Franklin, Tony will be there with better cogs.

And if there's a better TIG welded frame than the Mark V Pro, I'd know about it.

There ain't.
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Old 07-28-05, 07:26 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by fixwrench
I love all this NYCBike hating from the cool cats on this forum. Maybe that's what keeps their ebay prices down - no bidders. I joined this forum to get real answers about the CityFixed, and all I can find out is they won't let me bring a bike into their shop (we have 800 sq ft in Chicago packed with bikes, anyone brings their bike in the next guy can't move), and that they charge ebay'ers a fee for parts sold at half of wholesale.

I've also found that Peripathetic can't find a bike shop in NYC that'll give him free advice, may I suggest reading a book (a really hard to find one like Bicycling's Guide to Repair and Maintenance - only about a billion in print - gave me enough knowledge to start working on my own bike, now I get paid for it).

Speaking of research, a little internet searching will tell you that Maxway Cycles from Taiwan is proud to provide the frames for (amongst many others) Iro and Surly (seems like he got their off the rack track models), no mention of NYCBikes (though I know the cross frame I got from him is made in asia).

So... I have had great customer service from NYCBikes (though I am sure their will be four posters after me to slam all I have said, "I bought a tube from him and he wouldn't give me an overhaul for free"), I have a recreational racer with touring geometry and don't want that in my fixed gear bike, and I would like to hear from anyone who has ridden one, not the echo of people who have read others posts, or the whine of people who think shops should give %$#^ away for free "I always got it for free before when my daddy paid, why won't they give it to me now!"




<sniff> Hmmm, smells bad in here.

You have a remarkable knack for simultaneously insulting those from whom you seek advice and indulging your own self-gratification.

Maybe you can supplement that great living you're making by starting up a separate NYCBikes forum where you and your other troll friends can satisfy each other's needs.

This thread is dead.


Last edited by peripatetic; 07-28-05 at 11:26 PM.
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Old 07-28-05, 07:47 PM
  #30  
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Nobody has mentioned the Steamroller as an alternative? I don't mean to derail the IRO vs. NYC thread, but Kogswell was already thrown in so I thought it was fair game. Also, I just bought a used one for less than the IRO or NYC, its on the way as we speak and now I'm wondering if I should have just ponied up the cash for one of those two.
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Old 07-28-05, 07:52 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Ghost_of_53-11
Bianchi Pista gives you much better parts than the IRO and costs $100 less. It actually has a Dura Ace cog too. Not to mention you buy it at your local LBS instead of being a mail order bike.
I'd say that the parts spec is comparable, with the edge maybe going to IRO for the wheelset. When it comes to the cheap stem/headset/bb/seatpost/saddle that come on either of them ,there isn't much of a differnecee. Tony ships his bikes with Soma cogs which, admittedly aren't as nice as DA, but aren't exactly stamped POS-es. Oh, and the IRO is the same price as the Pista. both are $550 MSRP. (yeah, yeah, shipping, but that might offset the cost of taxes if you're ordering out of state)

Originally Posted by Ghost_of_53-11
The reason he can offer a 50% replacement policy is probably because he is making bucks on each sale.

Even when he sells them for 50% ($300) he still is probably making some money. Bike should really be $400-$450 instead of $600.

I'm not impressed with his stuff. Sorry.
With the bulk discounts and volume prices Bianchi gets from manufacturers, you could say the same thing. But you don't see them offering a no-questions-asked crash repolacement policy do you?
You don't think he should make money?

Originally Posted by Ghost_of_53-11
You'll get more street props though with the IRO I guess. You can be an anti-hipster hero that way.
nice troll.
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Old 07-28-05, 08:02 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by 144 BCD
I don't like the IRO or the NYCBikes product.

IRO parts spec is very poor IMO. They don't even give you a decent quality cog with their $600 build up.
well, all i bought was a rear wheel, but tony threw in 2 of those non-'decent quality cogs' for me to see what gear was appropriate for my legs and for my chainstay/chain length... when i found out, i bought a 'real' cog.

now that's nice!
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Old 07-28-05, 08:43 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Ghost_of_53-11
Even when he sells them for 50% ($300) he still is probably making some money.
At $300, he's doing something else.



Originally Posted by Ghost_of_53-11
I'm not impressed with his stuff. Sorry.
I am. Tony does a tremendous job of balancing the components mix.

And the MkVPro simply has no peer in TIG. But then I see things from a different perspective.
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Old 07-28-05, 10:45 PM
  #34  
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That pespective being that you know what your talking about and not trolling the forums. Honestly 53 whats the point of all this.
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Old 07-29-05, 12:00 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by bodegabandit
That pespective being that you know what your talking about and not trolling the forums. Honestly 53 whats the point of all this.
I have to agree with Ghost. The parts spec is not that good. Break it down for yourself.

Whoever said the wheelset was better I don't know why you think this way. Straight guage spokes and arrowheads are good? I like the rear hub better on this years Bianchi too.

Last edited by 144 BCD; 07-29-05 at 12:22 AM.
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Old 07-29-05, 08:22 AM
  #36  
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The point being is that if you call Tony at IRO, you talk with Tony. Try that with Bianchi USA. Stories abound with people that order from Tony and end up with a upgraded part/wheel due to his being out of stock on the standard item. IRO offers at last count, 4 different 700c fixed gear frames. All are have their intended purpose.

As for the parts spec, the wheels are great. Velocity is a quality rim manufacturer that stands behind its product. The hubs are smooth as butter on a summer day.

Does Tony make money off his frames/business? I sure hope so, as that is the purpose of being in business. The free bike line forms at the dumpster.
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Old 07-29-05, 09:22 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Kogswell
I think our Model G stands up well against the others.



$430 which includes frame, fork, brake calipers, headset and shipping to locations in the USA.

$45 extra for our 120mm, fixed/fixed rear hub

More photos here: http://www.kogswell.com/images/g

PayPal and credit cards accepted.

Email us at: info@kogswell.com Phone us at: 1-952-445-8804

For refereneces, please talk to my friend Tony Portera at IRO.

Matthew Grimm / Sales
Kogswell Cycles
http://kogswell.com
Matthew...liked the looks of the frame so much, I went to your website. Only 54 and 58cm frames? Way too small for me! Why only two sizes???
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Old 07-29-05, 09:50 AM
  #38  
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53-11,

Welcome back, good to see that your time away has not changed your ill-formed oppinions.

The straight vs. butted war is old. Jobst Brandt has a view of the world that is marred by his own dedication to self-indulgence.

The IRO is a quality bike at a good price that include outstanding feedback and support by the owner of the business. Nuff said.
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Old 07-29-05, 09:58 AM
  #39  
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Matt, that model G from portland is absolutely gorgeous. If I ever decide to get a bike with slacker angles, that's at the top of my list. So f-in classic.
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Old 07-29-05, 09:58 AM
  #40  
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I am still waiting to see 53-11's vast array of bikes. Until then - just another useless troll with little-to-nothing to say.

Money, this is mouth.

edit: ahhh...silence again.

Last edited by pitboss; 07-29-05 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 07-29-05, 10:53 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Kogswell
The G model (both the 54 and 58cm sizes) are $430 which includes:

frame, fork, brake calipers, headset and shipping to locations in the US

Here's one that's built up:



Note that they end up looking fairly roadish rather than trackish.

Matthew

BTW: G58 is our shorthand for Model G / Size 58cm

OK, this is going to identify me as a total fixed gear n00b...but what is the pad or tape I see on a lot of these fixies on the top tube for or about? I'm guessing handlebars swinging back and scuffing the TT?
While I'm at it, am I allowed to hate on NYC Bikes all the way from Atlanta, GA? LOL j/k. I'm learning a lot, and rather than being branded a hipster, I'm more of an old hippie type.
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Old 07-29-05, 10:59 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Zonker
OK, this is going to identify me as a total fixed gear n00b...but what is the pad or tape I see on a lot of these fixies on the top tube for or about? I'm guessing handlebars swinging back and scuffing the TT?
While I'm at it, am I allowed to hate on NYC Bikes all the way from Atlanta, GA? LOL j/k. I'm learning a lot, and rather than being branded a hipster, I'm more of an old hippie type.
you can hate on 53-11 all the way from atlanta too. try it, it's easy.
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Old 07-29-05, 12:24 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by auk
53-11,

Welcome back, good to see that your time away has not changed your ill-formed oppinions.

The straight vs. butted war is old. Jobst Brandt has a view of the world that is marred by his own dedication to self-indulgence.

The IRO is a quality bike at a good price that include outstanding feedback and support by the owner of the business. Nuff said.
You are completely wrong.

Straight gauge spokes do not make the wheel more bombproof. That's the type of misinformation that is rampant in this forum.

Butted spokes make a more durable wheel. Though the spokes are thinner in the middle, the elbows (where spokes breaks), have a longer fatigue life.

http://www.sapim.be/index.php?st=pro...il=fatiguetest (read this. Sapim leader spokes are the straight guage. All the others are various butted spokes)

Last edited by 53-11_alltheway; 07-29-05 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 07-29-05, 12:39 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by [165]
I am still waiting to see 53-11's vast array of bikes. Until then - just another useless troll with little-to-nothing to say.

Money, this is mouth.

edit: ahhh...silence again.
Argument was whether straight spokes were more bombproof than butted. Obviously this is not true.

If you call correct information trolling I feel sorry for you. Maybe you like living a world of ignorance. So be it, but don't subject others to your own misconceptions.

Read this http://www.sapim.be/index.php?st=pro...il=fatiguetest [165] so you can learn something new.

Last edited by 53-11_alltheway; 07-29-05 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 07-29-05, 12:49 PM
  #45  
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I despise you.
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Old 07-29-05, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 53-11_alltheway
You are completely wrong.

Straight gauge spokes do not make the wheel more bombproof. That's the type of misinformation that is rampant in this forum.

Butted spokes make a more durable wheel. Though the spokes are thinner in the middle, the elbows (where spokes breaks), have a longer fatigue life.

http://www.sapim.be/index.php?st=pro...il=fatiguetest (read this. Sapim leader spokes are the straight guage. All the others are various butted spokes)
I don't what this 53-11 did to upset this forum in the past, but he is right about what he is saying. Straight spokes are not good to use unless you are trying to save money.
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Old 07-29-05, 01:02 PM
  #47  
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I don't doubt that butted spokes will build a stronger wheel, but you can't expect anyone to take that link seriously. If you have some independent tests reflecting real riding conditions and performed on multiple manufacturers' spokes in a variety of wheel configuations, feel free to link to that, but sending us all to look at Sapim's marketing hype isn't doing much to advance your argument.
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Old 07-29-05, 01:14 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Zonker
OK, this is going to identify me as a total fixed gear n00b...but what is the pad or tape I see on a lot of these fixies on the top tube for or about? I'm guessing handlebars swinging back and scuffing the TT?
While I'm at it, am I allowed to hate on NYC Bikes all the way from Atlanta, GA? LOL j/k. I'm learning a lot, and rather than being branded a hipster, I'm more of an old hippie type.
yes, it is to protect the TT when the handlebars are bare as on track bikes.... unfortunately, i didnt find that out until too late!

i also have similar pad on the downtube to protect it from the neck of the front brake caliper
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Old 07-29-05, 01:31 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by r0cket-
I don't doubt that butted spokes will build a stronger wheel, but you can't expect anyone to take that link seriously. If you have some independent tests reflecting real riding conditions and performed on multiple manufacturers' spokes in a variety of wheel configuations, feel free to link to that, but sending us all to look at Sapim's marketing hype isn't doing much to advance your argument.
The tests shown by Sapim are all on their own spokes so there is no bias. (the more agressive the butting the longer the fatigue life)


The same information and conclusions are found in Jobst Bradt's book, "the bicycle wheel". He is an engineer and his explanations make sense.


Jobst explains why the butted spoke makes a superior wheel. While the thicker middle of a straight gauge spoke make make it look stronger it is in fact weaker. This is because spokes don't break in the middle, they break at the ends.

Having a thin middle section lets the spoke transfer more impacts to other spokes. This distributes the forces more evenly. As you know spokes are made of steel and steel has a fatigue limit. The butted spokes therefore are more able to keep these impacts below the fatigue limit of the 14 guage elbow any single spoke.

Furthermore the butted spoke reduces peak forces on the spoke threads at nipple which reduces spoke loosening.

I wrote a thread a while back in the road forum discussing this very same thing. http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...rueness+thread

Last edited by 53-11_alltheway; 07-29-05 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 07-29-05, 02:02 PM
  #50  
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53-11,

My how you master the use of the bold feature.

Nowhere in my post did I state that straight guage is more bombproof than butted. It seems that you are creating an argument that did not exist. What I said was that the argument is old and that J.Brant is . . .

Is there a fatigue difference. At times yes. The tension of the wheel, the quality of the spokes, the nipples used, the type of riding, and the number of spokes play a larger partin whether a spoke will break rather than it being straight vs. butted.

Being an engineer does not make you right in all instances. It simply qualifies you to make a statement that may or may not be plausible in the real-world. My best friend is an electrical engineer and his favorite saying (in regards to building high-end tube amplification) is to read the book, memorize it, and then throw it out and start from that point. Because the book is only the starting point.

Forget Brant, what is Your experiences in the matter? What has your building and riding told you about the argument? Textbook answers are nice, but not too telling of experience.

I've broken just as many butted spokes as I have straight, in fact more. Sometimes is is simply the nut behind the wheel.

Here is your homework for the term. Go buy a frame and build the bike. Build two sets of wheels one butted and the other straight. See how it goes. Ride it, ride it some more, and then report back with your findings. Leave J.B.'s book on the desk and put your hand to paper. Life is not about what you can remember that so-and-so said, it's about having some experience to backup your statements.

Unfortuanately this thread is off the subject line and now should be titled under spokes or some other thing. For that I am sorry to have been a contributor to the mess.
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