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New parts = pain in the buttock

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New parts = pain in the buttock

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Old 12-07-18, 02:01 AM
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New parts = pain in the buttock



Holding it right about at where it sits with the current B.B. you can see itís not in line with the cog.


Current B.B. where is spindle length ??

ive has this Bianchi Portofino from
the 80s for a few years now. Japanese built, a year after I bought it i convertered it to a track bike with chopping off all the mounts and sanding down the rough leftovers. Itís been wicked stiff and strong as a good Tange Bianchi should. Alls I had to do was take the original sakae cranks, (2 chainrings) and leave just one but flipped to the opposite side of the crank arm to where it should be mounted with single speed ring bolts. Lined up perfectly with my dp18s, Alex/origin 8 wheels, aerospoke rear, even a temporary Miche pistard wheelset. No adjustments to B.B. or hub spacers. Iím including a pic of the sealed B.B. Iíve had in, a Shimano I believe itís 110 or 120 mm spindles but there is no number marking for me to clarify that. I just got and mounted a new Miche primato crankset and the chainline is now way off. The Miche chainring lines up with the dropouts. I screwed in the B.B. on the drive side to imitate a 107mm spindle and it sits just a mm or two shy of being aligned and has about 1mm of space from the chainring bolts and ring hitting the stays.

So i guess my question is, what should I do here to avoid buying a new frame for this to work cause I love this frame. Been riding it all seasons, even toook it down to San d to the retrogression shop when I had some vacation time and wanted to visit a new state. Do I use a 107mm spindle bracket or a 110? What is my current spindle (no markings but the entire axel measures about 120) what are my hub spacing options. I donít really wanna bend the stays but thereís gotta be a way to get this thing aligned and smooth. Gonna try to solve it here before I take it to the lbs because it seems simpler than Iím making it.

thanks for any help you can provide, folks!

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Old 12-07-18, 04:26 AM
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1. You need to actually mount the bb and the crankset to see where it actually sits. A few poorly lit photos of you holding parts is mostly useless for yourself or anyone helping you.
2. Measure the actual spindle length.
3. You can space the cog. You can put spacers between the hub and the cog to move it to the right. Obviously you can only move so far, as to not run out of threading, but itís an option.
4. If you need a shorter spindle length, and if you can move the crank closer to the frame, you can do both. But you canít know that until you actually mount the crank and measure itís chainline.

without knowing what your actual spindle length is, or where the crankset actually sits when mounted, it looks like you need a much shorter spindle as that crank can sit a good 4-5mm closer to the frame than where youíre holding it. That alone could be enough to get a proper chainline.

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Old 12-07-18, 11:25 AM
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Yes, I did have it fully mounted and realized it wasnít going to work as was. Thatís just me holding it here after removing it once finding that out for a post-realization photo reference.

So measuring spindle length is just from tip from top of each bottom bracket axel all the way across? Cause no one or no website has explained to me how to measure this.

I think a 107mm would give me just barely a mm of enough clearance to NOT hit the frame so long as I donít get any dings or damage to bend anything in anyway.

About the cog spacer I think I will have to try one of those too along with the shorter B.B.

Should work out pretty well. Rest of the components are arriving today soís I will try to get it all put together then see if any o the LBS are in stock of 68x107 B.B. and such spacers.
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Old 12-07-18, 12:17 PM
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The Miche Primato bottom bracket for that crank is 68x107 mm. It has adjustable cups so you can adjust the chainline.

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/.../rp-prod165478
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Old 12-07-18, 01:45 PM
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OK let's take a few steps back. Which version of the Miche crankset do you have, the ISO or the newer JIS version? The ISO version uses a 107mm ISO bottom bracket with adjustable cups, and the JIS version uses a 107mm JIS bottom bracket with regular non adjustable cups.

The tapers on ISO and JIS are the same, but if you install an ISO crank on a JIS spindle it will sit out about 4.5mm farther than it should, so it's important to confirm what crank you have.

The bottom bracket in your picture looks like it's a JIS, and if you measured the overall spindle @ 120mm then it's 120mm. Which makes sense if you were using it with a road crank.

I couldn't understand what rear wheel you are using, but if it has a 120mm hub then you'd need a 107mm bottom bracket (ISO or JIS depending on crank) to get a 42mm chainline with your Miche crank.

With that said the Miche cranks have terrible clearance for some reason. I have both the ISO and JIS versions. With the ISO crank and 107mm bottom bracket i ground down the back of spiders since they would hit the chainstays. On the JIS crank I used a 110mm bottom bracket to gain the 1.5mm of extra clearance I needed. Having 43.5mm chainline is no big deal you won't even notice it.

Hope this helps g'luck.

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Old 12-07-18, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by REDMASTA View Post
Which version of the Miche crankset do you have, the ISO or the newer JIS version? The ISO version uses a 107mm ISO bottom bracket with adjustable cups, and the JIS version uses a 107mm JIS bottom bracket with regular non adjustable cups.
Again I'm educated. Twice in one day.


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Old 12-07-18, 02:20 PM
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Yep this is indeed the JIS version. The new wheelset Iím working with is the Conquer Elite track wheelset fixed/fixed. It sits in real nicely on the frame as did the old wheelset (Alex/Origin8, pictures) and other ones I had before it. Now I may have to file and grind a little bit of the crankarm bolt mounts down as you did, but thereís just gonna be barely any clearance if I do 107, which seems to be the correct fit to bring the chain wheel back in and closer aligned with the rear cog. The old chainline was so good I could run 32 or 1/8 and it would be quieter than a whisper with just a hair of slack in the chain and stuff enough to launch me at good speeds. Iíve become less a fan of skidding for stopping to avoid less wear as tear. And I certainly donít wanna stretch or damage these new parts.

Thank you for the B.B. insight, I will see if the local Trek store has a 107 or can order the Miche B.B.

Also Iím gonna be running a KMC halflink chain, 50/15 like usual.

It may take a week or two but Iíll post the build and previous version photos if you guys wanna see it when I get truly finished.

Thanks again!
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Old 12-07-18, 02:40 PM
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I'd assume the rear hub on those wheels is spaced at 120mm, so a 107 bb will give you that "perfect" 42mm chainline. If you have clearance issues with 107 don't feel bad about going to 110, it would only put your chainline off by 1.5 mm.
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Old 12-07-18, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by REDMASTA View Post
I'd assume the rear hub on those wheels is spaced at 120mm, so a 107 bb will give you that "perfect" 42mm chainline. If you have clearance issues with 107 don't feel bad about going to 110, it would only put your chainline off by 1.5 mm.
To the OP: which could, if you wanted, by mitigated by a cog spacer. Again, Iím not suggesting to do that or not, only that itís an option. In fact, anything less than 2mm in regards to chainline, should be fine, IMO. But something like a 1mm spacer (usually a shimano freehub spacer) should fit perfectly, and could get your chainline within half a milimeter.

If there is a chance of clearence issue with a 107, I would much rather go with a JIS 110mm spindle and simply shift the cog slightly over, than possibly having to take a grinder to my crank. And yea mate, be sure to share photos when itís all built up. Cheers.
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Old 12-07-18, 04:15 PM
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shaving off all the braze ons on a road bike doesnt magically turn it into a track bike.
conversions are such a waste of time and effort in this day and age when you can just drop like $300 and get a kilo tt or equivalent mailed directly to your house.
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Old 12-07-18, 05:21 PM
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push comes to shove can always dimple the chainstay, might have more clearance issues than a few mm with 144bcd on a road frame. if it still don't work pick up track frame as mentioned ^^^ they can be had for not much money and lot less headache...
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Old 12-08-18, 12:09 AM
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Definitel doesn’t make it a track bike rght but I chose the frame as a favorite of having built up 25 or so in my lifetime from conversions, multi speed builds and genuine track frames. It’s just comfortably my favorite to sit on and ride, size and feel wise. Here I’ll post another pic while I wait to get a day off and go therapy shopping
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Old 12-08-18, 12:12 AM
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Albeit I’ve never studied bike mechanics professionally nor the tightening newton scale for certain bolts and nutsand all that jazzanatazz. This thing ran strong a f and quiet a f with the Sake flipped road cranks and a cheap 125$ wheelset with sealed hubs and a little ratio dialing. I just got these new parts cause they were all about 3 year old headset bars wheels seatpost and the original cranks were gettin worn well from all the resistance and miles . It was a fun time. This upgrade is a challenge I think will pay off.
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Old 12-08-18, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by motrheadsroadie View Post
shaving off all the braze ons on a road bike doesnt magically turn it into a track bike.
conversions are such a waste of time and effort in this day and age when you can just drop like $300 and get a kilo tt or equivalent mailed directly to your house.
Youíre right it doesnít. But is anyone pretending they have a track bike? Maybe conversions are a waste of time to you, but to others theyíre great. A well chosen frame for conversion is probably a hell of a lot better than a mercier, and for some folks, the challenge is fun, even if it comes with a few frustrations that you might turn to a community for some help with. Youíre welcome to your opinion, just know that those you share it with, might strongly disagree. Cheers.

my conversion:

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Old 12-08-18, 09:52 AM
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yeah, i think that giant time trial chain ring is stupid as hell too.
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Old 12-08-18, 10:27 AM
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Lol
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Old 12-08-18, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by motrheadsroadie View Post
yeah, i think that giant time trial chain ring is stupid as hell too.
it currently has a custom made 55t, but itís all good. I think the front rack on your bike looks ugly as hell and the idea of carrying load on super skinny tubular tyres is stupid as all get out. But useless insults arenít the point. The point is that a conversion, especially a well chosen one absolutely can be a good choice. The geometry between a 70ís road frame and 70s track frame for example were typically damn near identical, the tubing identical. The only appreciable differences were sometimes 120 v 126 spacing, fork ends v dropouts and a slightly higher bb for a track frame. No removing braze-ons required. So your bike and my bike for example, are both 100% better than some cheap mercier, just because it has 120mm spaced fork ends. So what would be the appreciable difference between the OPs frame and several hundred dollars spent on a TT? Performance? Quality? Weight? Seems like bad advice to waste money for no reason to me. So, wasting time deriding someone for asking help about a conversion and telling them to buy a frame no better than what they already have is as lame as your granny riser bars. Cheers, mate.

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Old 12-08-18, 11:54 AM
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keep going.
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Old 12-08-18, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by seamuis View Post


Youíre right it doesnít. But is anyone pretending they have a track bike? Maybe conversions are a waste of time to you, but to others theyíre great. A well chosen frame for conversion is probably a hell of a lot better than a mercier, and for some folks, the challenge is fun, even if it comes with a few frustrations that you might turn to a community for some help with. Youíre welcome to your opinion, just know that those you share it with, might strongly disagree. Cheers.

my conversion:

I really like that crankset, what is it?

Dave
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Old 12-08-18, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bonsai171 View Post
I really like that crankset, what is it?

Dave
the crankset is a mid 80ís Dura-Ace 7400 road crank, that I stripped off the anodising and polished. The chainring is made by Spťcialitťs TA.
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Old 12-09-18, 07:58 AM
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OP, have you tried putting the chainring on the inner side of the crank? Would certainly be closer to in line if it fits.
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Old 12-09-18, 08:31 PM
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Canít flip the chaining o inside on these Miche cranks. However good news, first bike shop (which has way more stuff) didnít have the parts I need which I think was them BSing me cause I walked in right at open today. Went to the Trek store and they had my 107mm B.B., a longer chain, and gave me the cog spacers fo free. Brought it all home, went to work, just got off and put it together, my hands are greasy as I type. 107m and spacer = off by maybe 1mm maybe even half, Iíll take it! Itís p quiet and smooth. Didnít have to grind down the crank bolt eyelets, about 2-3 mm fo clearance so no strikes! So THANK YOU folks for the sound advice and teaching me a couple new facts! Hereís the pictures of the bike original when I bought it used and the pic of right now after all the wheelets and crank swaps and stuff Iíve done. Very satisfied with these new parts and I would recommend them to anyone. Budget friendly and TOUGH! About to go zip around on the black ice lol I got through last winter biking 20 miles a day with worn down 25s on black ice and three inches of snow many times so this should be no major feat for a late night joy ride.
Original bike, Iíve had about four wheel sets on it since the conversion, you can tell the frame has been worn on the paint from brushing against it while pedaling in many spots. Kept those original cranks on and flipped chainring inside til today. Hell of a ride for a used bike!


More ideal! Might super fine tune it with another super thin spacer if I ever find one.


Complete. The original forks snapped when I ran into a pole late one night out far from home. These have held up well. I think I may opt for threadless black forks soon so I can bust barspins again. Itíll be my racer and maybe commuter again til then.
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Old 12-09-18, 08:39 PM
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Looks good, I like it. Curious if you used the 107mm bb why use a cog spacer?
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Old 12-09-18, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by REDMASTA View Post
Looks good, I like it. Curious if you used the 107mm bb why use a cog spacer?
for some reason it still sat a little off with the cog being closer to the center of the frame down the middle, than the chainring by with the 107. Itís be a little less crooked without it and I canít explain it.
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Old 12-09-18, 09:48 PM
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New pain in the buttock , Iíll opt for shorter crankarms next time cause my cages scrape more than they used to with the old cranks, I can feel that energy displacement difference with the rotations too and I am not used i it haha. Iíve had the frame stripped down and it was unridden for a month from the recent snows and busy work schedule but luckily thereís some above freezing days coming up to get acquainted.

I was talking to the guys at our local Omahole bike shop and the it who found the parts for me said he had the same wheelset and itís been really good to him so Iím liking how these rims make the 28s almost seem like 25s. They keep the greater metropolitan city trails pretty clear here which are great to ride. Thereís a few but One nature lined trail I can jump on way out west in urban sprawl / farmland area and or mid city and get to downtow, cross the state divUsing river on the scenic pedestrian bridge through Midwest national park hq and then last two casinos, a lake, then a tree canopy lined rural northern ozark type quiet fine crushed gravel/moss trail. Itís like 60 miles one way, great for daycamping/foraging, and eventually links to highways to KC Mo. Iíd like to see more rural easy maintained and simple yet bountiful trails linking city to city interstate like. Any of you fellas know good long trails to arenít car littered?
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