PeopleAreIdiots

The other day I added some spacers to my cog to move it out a bit and get a straighter chainline. I would have clearance issues if I moved the chainring to the inside of the crank spider so this was kinda my only option short of shifting the entire hub over with axle spacers and having to re-dish the entire wheel...ugh.

Anyway, I ended up settling on two spacers between the hub and the cog which gave me a much straiter chainline. However, now there arent enough threads exposed for the lockring to screw down all the way. The way I have it now, the lockring is greased and tightened properly but there are still about 2mm of lockring threads that are not being used. I've been riding it like this with no problems for a few days but I'm still concerned that this is not safe. Am I right to be concerned or is this fine? Am I in danger of stripping the threads on my lockring or hub or anything?

I took pictures of what I'm talking about but apparently I'm not allowed to post them until I've made 10 posts on this forum so we'll have to do with just my description for now.

Thanks!

CliffordK

@PeopleAreIdiots's Gallery

CliffordK

Are you using brakes on the bike?

It looks to me like you might be able to get away with one spacer behind your rear sprocket, but not two.

Are you riding this as a "flip flop", or only using the fixie sprocket?

One thing you might be able to do, if you can find a narrower lock-nut, you could put the thin lock nut on the right side of the axle, add a spacer to the left side of the axle, and dish your wheel slightly. However, that wouldn't necessarily work if you're doing a flip-flop.

TimothyH

The lockring is barely even attached to the bike.

It could hold through the apocalypse or it could fail. No one can say.

I wouldn't ride that. I'd want it to be better, even if just for the piece of mind.



-Tim-

seamuis

Caliper

I wouldn't be happy with that, looks like you're risking the threads on the hub/lockring.

I'm assuming your chainring is too big to clear the frame on the inboard position? Have you considered if a combo of a smaller chainring and smaller sprocket would fit and give approximately the same ratio?

JohnDThompson 

It might hold, especially if you avoid using your legs to stop (use brakes). But if it fails, the least problem you can expect is ruining the lockring thread on your hub. More serious would be not being able to stop or slow when you really need to. Why risk it? Is there any reason why you couldn't adjust the chainline by e.g. using a slightly shorter bottom bracket axle instead? Or a cartridge that allows lateral adjustment?

caloso

What about a different width BB spindle?

hay

79pmooney

Easy way to get this right (but it involves wheelbuilding skills). Remove the cog spacers. Remove the same amount of spacers on the right (drive) side hub axle. Put those spacers on the left side, Now, loosen the drive side spokes, tighten the non-drive side spokes and re-true.

I don't have time now to spell out in detail how to do this, but this will get you a proper chainline and you have all the treads engaged.

Ben

PeopleAreIdiots

Thanks for the replies everyone! Super helpful. Also thanks to Cliffordk for posting the pics.

So it seems like my intuition was right after all. To answer some of your questions:

Yes I do use a front brake with this bike, a disc brake in fact. However I do also stop and slow down using my legs a good percentage of the time as I dont use a rear brake.

My bottom bracket is actually already a 103mm so I don't know how much narrower I can go. My chainring is only 46t too so I think the clearance problem is mainly with the way my frame is made (also, I didn't actually test this configuration so it could just be that I'm terrible at eyeballing...).

Like I mentioned in the OP, I have considered using axle spacers to scooch the whole hub to the drive side a bit and then re-dishing the wheel like some of you suggested. But I just figured I'd check here first to see if my lazy solution would work instead. My main problem with axle spacers, besides the fact that re-dishing the wheel will be a lot of work, is that I couldn't really use the other side of the hub for another cog (flip flop style) with the rim being dished off center.

Sounds like everyone is in agreement that my spacers have to go though so that's what I'm gonna do. I might try one spacer and see if I can get the lockring all the way on. If not I guess I'll just have to use axle spacers and fix my chainline the hard way.

Thanks for the input everyone! Much appreciated.

veganbikes

Generally when someone has to ask "is this unsafe" or "is this safe" the answer is usually pretty clear it is not SAFE. Not sure what your oddball set up is but something is wrong because you shouldn't need spacers behind a cog ever and unless your chainline is so heinous that it causes issues, I wouldn't worry about it but to be as safe as possible bring the bike down to your local shop and have them take a look at it and allow them to make it safe for ya.

Leukybear 

This.
A cassette spacer has no belonging in a fixed gear drive train.
Work on chainline from the crank. Are you running the correct bottom bracket for the cranks? Is the chaining on the right side of the crank spider?

PeopleAreIdiots

Good point. To be honest with you, I recently built these wheels and I'm just having fun trying to get everything perfect. With my last wheelset, I had the same minor chainline issue but the bike still ran perfectly fine. I think now I just care more because the parts are nicer and I have more time invested in the build.

PeopleAreIdiots

yes and yes. I have sugino rd2 cranks with a 103mm bottom bracket. The chainring is on the outside of the spider (I bought the cranks in a set with a messenger chainring and it came installed like that.) Like I said before, it doesnt look like there would be enough clearance if I moved the chainring to the inside of the spider.

So is the consensus that spacers + track cogs = bad news in general? I feel like I've seen other people do this. The spacers came with my hub too so I just kinda figured it was a valid option.

seamuis

TimothyH

I think @bonsai171 might have had the LBS do this for one of his wheels.


-Tim-

REDMASTA

using spacers to achieve a "straighter" chainline and risk trashing your hub or possibly your face in a crash is.......

how far is your chainline off that you would even consider this a good option?

PeopleAreIdiots

Yeah I noticed that the axle was made to fit wider dropouts. Im using a fuji track frame for now and it has 120mm dropouts as you would expect. I wasnt aware that the velo orange hubs were made specifically with wider threading though. I can see why that might be part of the cause of my chainline issue compared to a more typical hub.

I actually took one of the spacers off last night and the situation improved alot. Ill post them once i have 10 posts and the forum lets me...

PeopleAreIdiots

Nice touch hahaha.

Yeah I get it. Obviously I'm not a bike mechanic of anything. I've just been riding for a while and have recently started to get into doing my own upgrades and bike maintenance. Part of the fun of the hobby no? I guess part of learning is making dumb mistakes and getting called out by people with more experience. Basically the purpose of the clickbaity title of this thread.

To answer your question. The chainline is not heinous or anything. Im just enjoying the process of trying to get it right. I used spacers that came with the hub for the simple reason that it was the easiest and cheapest solution available to me at the time. The lockring thing in the OP concerned me though so I started this thread to get some input from people who know better than me.

Thanks for all the input so far guys!

PeopleAreIdiots

Sorry for the triple post but that last one made 10 so now I can post pictures.

Like seamius and CliffordK suggested, I took one of the spacers off and Id like to hear everyone's input. I would love to try the other solutions that people suggested but most of them require me to either spend money on new parts or dish my wheel off-center which would prevent me from using the threads on the other side of the hub.

Like I mentioned before, I don't really have a huge issue with my chainline that effects the quality of my ride. It probably would at most effect the longevity of drivetrain but its not like I have 100s of dollars invested in it. I'm mostly just doing this for a bit of fun.

That said... I don't think crashing or ruining new hubs is fun so I want to make sure everything I'm doing is above board.

So here are some pictures with only one spacer. Better? Still stupid? Is the minor improvement not worth the risk?



I ended up taking off one of the spacers.


And I still get a pretty strait chainline.


The lockring goes on much more satisfyingly now. It looks to be sticking off a bit still but it has a bevel that makes it look like that even without a spacer. All of the threads are engaged.


Took a closer look after my ride today and it seems that this may be contributing to weird chainline issue (?). Looks like the bottom bracket isn't flush with the frame. I had this installed by a bike shop because I didn't have the right tool so I hadnt paid it much attention till now. Since I didnt do this myself i dont know how it works, could I just screw it in further to shift the cranks over a few mm? Or is that not how it works?

PS. Please forgive the griminess of my bike in these photos. I commute 8 miles each way in downtown Chicago. Its January...

seamuis

PeopleAreIdiots

Any specific reason for doing that? Preventing weathering on the exposed threads or something?

Also are you talking jigsaw or something more involved?

The bottom bracket is a 103mm sugino square taper. Seemed pretty standard.

REDMASTA

Long as you don't plan on running bmx pegs anytime soon it looks nicer with the extra axle gone. You can use a hacksaw, make sure to leave axle nut on while cutting.

seamuis