Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
Reload this Page >

CrMo Frame then a Full Carbon Fork. Why? (Other than saving weight)

Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

CrMo Frame then a Full Carbon Fork. Why? (Other than saving weight)

Reply

Old 02-02-19, 11:42 AM
  #1  
SuperPershing
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
SuperPershing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
CrMo Frame then a Full Carbon Fork. Why? (Other than saving weight)

For me this is impractical (educate me if im wrong) because why would you use a very light component in a already heavy build, i mean. Will there be a difference? (Other than being light)

and i saw the cinelli vigorelli steel review. It said that it has the right mix of weight that can propel the bike more (i forgot the exact lines). Is there a science behind this? Cause for me it feels wrong
SuperPershing is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-19, 01:06 PM
  #2  
TejanoTrackie 
Veteran Racer
 
TejanoTrackie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ciudad de Vacas, Tejas
Posts: 11,150

Bikes: 29 frames + 72 wheels

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 660 Post(s)
All high end framesets such as the steel Cinelli Vigorelli, regardless of material, can benefit from a good quality carbon fiber fork. Not only will a good CF be lighter, but it will do a much better job of absorbing road vibrations. Where I ride there is a lot of rough chip seal pavement, and my bikes with good quality full CF forks ride much smoother than my other bikes with steel forks. I have bikes with Aluminum, Titanium, Carbon Fiber and even Steel frames that have full CF forks on them, and they all benefit from their CF forks. Also, this notion that steel frames are heavier than other other materials is only true for cheap steel, especially hi-ten, which use small diameter thickwall straight guage tubing, and is not true for high end frames such as the Cinelli Vigorelli, which uses high strength steel tubing that is butted, large diameter and thin walled.
__________________
What, Me Worry? - Alfred E. Neuman

Originally Posted by Dcv View Post
I'd like to think i have as much money as brains.
I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the tunnel keeps getting longer - me
TejanoTrackie is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-19, 01:13 PM
  #3  
mouse
dumb
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Tucson
Posts: 362
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Originally Posted by SuperPershing View Post
For me this is impractical (educate me if im wrong) because why would you use a very light component in a already heavy build, i mean. Will there be a difference? (Other than being light)

and i saw the cinelli vigorelli steel review. It said that it has the right mix of weight that can propel the bike more (i forgot the exact lines). Is there a science behind this? Cause for me it feels wrong
Not all steel bikes are heavy. You can build a steel bike that's quite light. So yes... part of the advantage is it is lighter. Carbon also has a different feel, it dampens vibration to a certain extent.
More weight might take more effort to get up to speed, but the more weight the easier it holds that speed.
mouse is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-19, 04:50 AM
  #4  
SuperPershing
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
SuperPershing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Originally Posted by mouse View Post
Not all steel bikes are heavy. You can build a steel bike that's quite light. So yes... part of the advantage is it is lighter. Carbon also has a different feel, it dampens vibration to a certain extent.
More weight might take more effort to get up to speed, but the more weight the easier it holds that speed.
more weight is easier to hold speed, I did not realize that. Interesting
SuperPershing is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-19, 07:34 AM
  #5  
TejanoTrackie 
Veteran Racer
 
TejanoTrackie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ciudad de Vacas, Tejas
Posts: 11,150

Bikes: 29 frames + 72 wheels

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 660 Post(s)
Originally Posted by SuperPershing View Post
more weight is easier to hold speed, I did not realize that. Interesting
The physics term is “momentum.” Having said that, most of the mass is provided by the rider. Fat people rule !
__________________
What, Me Worry? - Alfred E. Neuman

Originally Posted by Dcv View Post
I'd like to think i have as much money as brains.
I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the tunnel keeps getting longer - me
TejanoTrackie is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-19, 09:32 AM
  #6  
mouse
dumb
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Tucson
Posts: 362
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Originally Posted by TejanoTrackie View Post


The physics term is “momentum.” Having said that, most of the mass is provided by the rider. Fat people rule !
Nailed it! I just had a flashback to my highschool hippy physics teacher who said something quite similar
mouse is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-19, 02:42 PM
  #7  
StirFry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
I like the mix of carbon and steel for comfort. Their vibration properties compliment each other well.
StirFry is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-19, 06:13 PM
  #8  
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 5,015

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Pink Klein MTB, Phil Wood VeloXS Frame (that will soon have DA 7400), Cilo Road Frame

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1105 Post(s)
Why not? Some people prefer the ride of a steel fork and some don't. I like steel forks on my touring bike for weight carrying capability and durability but on a road bike I much would rather cut some weight and add in the vibration dampening properties of the full carbon fork plus depending on the bike they can look quite fantastic.
veganbikes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-19, 06:23 PM
  #9  
ColonelSanders
Senior Member
 
ColonelSanders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 3,794

Bikes: 2017 Merida Big Nine XT Edition, 2016 Giant Toughroad SLR 2, 1995 Trek 830

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1175 Post(s)
There is no doubt that a carbon fork works well with a steel frame, but you do occasionally hear of folks in the bike industry claiming the best fork is a properly constructed steel one.


The guy who runs SJS Cycles in the UK for instance.
ColonelSanders is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-19, 07:30 PM
  #10  
79pmooney
A Roadie Forever
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 6,456

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1454 Post(s)
Originally Posted by TejanoTrackie View Post
All high end framesets such as the steel Cinelli Vigorelli, regardless of material, can benefit from a good quality carbon fiber fork. Not only will a good CF be lighter, but it will do a much better job of absorbing road vibrations. Where I ride there is a lot of rough chip seal pavement, and my bikes with good quality full CF forks ride much smoother than my other bikes with steel forks. I have bikes with Aluminum, Titanium, Carbon Fiber and even Steel frames that have full CF forks on them, and they all benefit from their CF forks. Also, this notion that steel frames are heavier than other other materials is only true for cheap steel, especially hi-ten, which use small diameter thickwall straight guage tubing, and is not true for high end frames such as the Cinelli Vigorelli, which uses high strength steel tubing that is butted, large diameter and thin walled.
I've never owned a carbon fiber fork. Apparently I've been suffering the past 50 years. Glad I didn't know it. When I got my ti bike, it had a steel fork. Discovered early on that seeking out the worst pavement was a blast. (A habit that I have tried to ween myself of to save tires and rims).

A good steel fork can have a sweet ride. That is true now. It was true 80 years ago. I just came back from a ride on a 531 fork. My Raleigh Competition has a 531 fork that is a plush ride even on really bad roads. My Mooney's fork is probably 531. Feel is classic English road. It does just fine (and so do I) on poor pavement. My best bike's fork also might be 531. (The bike I seek the bad pavement on.)

Now, another factor is wheels. Many modern rims are far stiffer vertically than what we used to ride. Wheels are also built now with far fewer spoke crosses than what we used to ride. Both add up to a lot more road shock being transmitted to the fork

Ben
79pmooney is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-19, 11:02 PM
  #11  
davei1980
Senior Member
 
davei1980's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: E Wa
Posts: 562

Bikes: 2011 Specialized Langster and guest starring a few others

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 220 Post(s)
Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I've never owned a carbon fiber fork. Apparently I've been suffering the past 50 years. Glad I didn't know it. When I got my ti bike, it had a steel fork. Discovered early on that seeking out the worst pavement was a blast. (A habit that I have tried to ween myself of to save tires and rims).

A good steel fork can have a sweet ride. That is true now. It was true 80 years ago. I just came back from a ride on a 531 fork. My Raleigh Competition has a 531 fork that is a plush ride even on really bad roads. My Mooney's fork is probably 531. Feel is classic English road. It does just fine (and so do I) on poor pavement. My best bike's fork also might be 531. (The bike I seek the bad pavement on.)

Now, another factor is wheels. Many modern rims are far stiffer vertically than what we used to ride. Wheels are also built now with far fewer spoke crosses than what we used to ride. Both add up to a lot more road shock being transmitted to the fork

Ben
I am looking to build SS CX bike out of an old touring frame (think Bridgestone RB T). Anyone on here know where I can find a carbon fork with canti brakes with 1” steerer (threaded/threadless doesn’t matter)?

Seems like everything out there is “pick any 2”
davei1980 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-19, 11:03 PM
  #12  
SuperPershing
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
SuperPershing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Damn guys, i want a custom CrMo Crit frame (Cinelli vigorelli steel Geometry) and a carbonium full carbon fork for my crit in the future.
SuperPershing is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-19, 12:31 AM
  #13  
mouse
dumb
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Tucson
Posts: 362
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Originally Posted by SuperPershing View Post
Damn guys, i want a custom CrMo Crit frame (Cinelli vigorelli steel Geometry) and a carbonium full carbon fork for my crit in the future.
do it!!
mouse is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-19, 07:25 PM
  #14  
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 5,015

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Pink Klein MTB, Phil Wood VeloXS Frame (that will soon have DA 7400), Cilo Road Frame

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1105 Post(s)
Wound up composites can make just about anything you need fork wise. They were willing to make 1" threaded steerer carbon canti fork for 26" wheel at not a ton of cost. I haven't gotten it yet but I might actually consider it this year if money turns out right.
veganbikes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-19, 09:40 PM
  #15  
phobus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: South FL
Posts: 237
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
I just watched this interview with Tom Ritchey, and he had some interesting points about carbon vs steel forks. Skip to the 30min point if you can't be bothered to watch the whole thing (you monster).

phobus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-19, 01:06 AM
  #16  
mouse
dumb
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Tucson
Posts: 362
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Ignore the ancient thermostat:

Originally Posted by phobus View Post
I just watched this interview with Tom Ritchey, and he had some interesting points about carbon vs steel forks. Skip to the 30min point if you can't be bothered to watch the whole thing (you monster).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-gGIqfVB2Y
Super rad interview... Made me run to this stem I’ll probly never use

Last edited by mouse; 02-05-19 at 01:11 AM.
mouse is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-19, 01:14 AM
  #17  
Leukybear
THE STUFFED
 
Leukybear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 12,672

Bikes: Rock Lobster; EAI Bareknuckle; Evil Insurgent

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 352 Post(s)
Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Wound up composites can make just about anything you need fork wise. They were willing to make 1" threaded steerer carbon canti fork for 26" wheel at not a ton of cost. I haven't gotten it yet but I might actually consider it this year if money turns out right.
I have 3 crmo bikes paired with wound up fork

Originally Posted by mouse View Post
Super rad interview... Made me run to this stem I’ll probly never use
If you want to experience the legend, get one of the vintage ritchey road logic road frames hand built by the man himself
Very underrated frame that's still quite in the realm of affordability.

__________________
¿pɐǝɹ oʇ sᴉ sᴉɥʇ ƃuᴉʎouuɐ ʍoɥ ǝǝs

Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Pound sign: Kilo TT
Leukybear is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-19, 01:18 AM
  #18  
mouse
dumb
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Tucson
Posts: 362
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Leukybear View Post
I have 3 crmo bikes paired with wound up fork



If you want to experience the legend, get one of the vintage ritchey road logic road frames hand built by the man himself
Very underrated frame that's still quite in the realm of affordability.

THAT is a gem and half... for geared bike! 😈

Last edited by mouse; 02-05-19 at 01:28 AM.
mouse is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-19, 10:40 AM
  #19  
PeopleAreIdiots
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 103
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)

Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Wound up composites
Wound up ftw!

perfect accompaniment to a steel frame. Still looking for a matching seatpost to make my life complete.
PeopleAreIdiots is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-19, 07:29 PM
  #20  
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 5,015

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Pink Klein MTB, Phil Wood VeloXS Frame (that will soon have DA 7400), Cilo Road Frame

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1105 Post(s)
They make a different product that is of excellent quality and certainly is quite durable at least from everyone I talk too. When you don't want something standard and boring but want a fantastic product, get wound-up.

I would love to own a Tom brazed frame someday. He is just such an interesting person and knowledgeable as all get up and those old frames were excellent.
veganbikes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-19, 12:22 PM
  #21  
Bigpond
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Originally Posted by phobus View Post
I just watched this interview with Tom Ritchey, and he had some interesting points about carbon vs steel forks. Skip to the 30min point if you can't be bothered to watch the whole thing (you monster
Thanks for that video! Interesting perspective, no doubt.

Then I took a peek at Ritchey bikes on eBay and was flummoxed by all carbon frames, carbon forks on steel bikes and everything without a 1” threaded steerer.
Bigpond is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service