I always used to wiggle the chain a bit to get it tight, but not too tight.

However, it was pointed out that your chain tool should have a bottom where you push the pin through, and a thinner shelf higher up.

By putting the chain on the shelf, you can spread the plates slightly.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7c2259d84a.jpg
:foo:

Can't quite see what you're referring to...

Although this chain tool is a roadie one handed down from my dad so idk if ones meant for track chains are any different. This one seems to work fine for all my 1/8in chains though (albeit creating a super tight connection)

Hmmm... Here is the Park Mini Chain Tool. I picked one up at a neighbor's garage sale a couple of years ago, but they still make them.

https://www.jensonusa.com/globalasse...l/tl707a02.jpg

And the basic chain tool.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ChainTool1.jpg

Hmmm... it looks like that extra shelf is slowly being eliminated.

huh... yeah I see what you mean.

Nothing bad ever happened when I rode with my wheel that far back in the dropouts. As long as the whole axle nut is in contact which it looks like it is, you should be cool. I was going between a 16t and a 18t and wasn't willing to take my chain apart every time I switched.

ok maybe I should stop being a baby then Haha

Yeah if your wheel has never shifted forwards or backwards when it was 10mm further into the dropouts. Why would it start shifting when it's just a little further back, it shouldn't be any different. I think someone suggested a half link in this thread which you could do, but if it were me I wouldn't even bother. I thought it may be dangerous when I had it that far back, then 3 months went by and the winter was over. And I didn't think about it until I was taking my winter tire and cog off.

A wheel won't shift backwards if tightened down. Certainly not on the drive side where the issue is pulling it forward (and the chain keeps it from falling out anyway). And, if it shifts 1/2" or so on the NDS, you should detect wheel rub on the stays.

I can't say about stress on the dropouts.

Chain wear is an issue, but for 1/2" of chain wear, you'll move the wheel back less than 1/4", and you'll be pushing the max wear pretty high.

It matters absolutely zero where you are in a dropout or track end except: too far forward - the tire may touch your seattube and the bike may feel a little skittish (shortest possible wheelbase) and far back, you have less weight on the rear tire so it may skid on poor surfaces when you climb out of the saddle and the rear of the bike sits lower with dropouts (but not track ends) so pedal strike may become a factor. Also the brake pads may no longer be hitting the rim squarely (pads too low with wheel forward, too high with wheel back). As long as there is enough material on the dropout/track end to secure the wheel, the bike does not care at all where the wheel is. I suppose all the way forward could be tough on dropouts but I have done it with Campy dropouts, stock Trek 400 series (~'83) frame, Hueret dropouts (?) on a ~'89 Reynolds 501 Peugeot frame and probably others. Never thought about is and have never heard of anyone else ever breaking a dropout doing that,

Several of the factors I mentioned above I studied closely designing my custom fix gear as I wanted a very long dropout with a rear brake so I could 1) use any cog from 12 to 24 for serious mountain climbs, 2) have a good descending bike (both handling and pedal strike) and be able to use a decent size tire with fenders as I use all the cogs in winter and 3) have easy wheel removal for wheel flips and cog changes. I ended up with a dropout that allows 1 3/4" of axle travel set 11 degrees from horizontal (roughly halfway between horizontal and perpendicular to the seatstay). With a Velocity Aero rim, the pads are fully usable until I get far down into the big cogs where the pads are well below the intended braking surface but they work just fine. (And who rides long miles fast on a 42-24? Not me!)

Ben

Thats kindof more what I was concerned about rather than the axle somehow slipping out the back of the dropouts. Honestly though at this point Im thinking Im just being overly cautious.

​​​​​​Here's an update in case anyone is interested.

Since I started this thread, I got a new frame. Setting up the chain length, I ended up with these two configurations:https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b0ba9c7b4a.jpg
19T (for 64-65 gear inches)

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f904364683.jpg
17T (for 72-73 gear inches)

This was pretty unsatisfactory for me (even though I gather that its probably safe to do). I didn't have enough space for my winter tires if I removed an entire link from the chain so I went ahead and grabbed a half link. Here's the half link installed in my chain:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ea6e8aca31.jpg
Half link installed in chain. (KMC half links on retrogression for cheap)

Here's how things worked out. Much better if you ask me! And still room for my tires.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0a57ff48a3.jpg
17T with half link

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f50b498040.jpg
19T with half link

As an aside, these wabi track ends perplex me:foo:. There doesn't seem to be a way to utilize the inner 3rd of them without running into tire clearance issues with the seat tube, even with skinny tires.