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-   -   Red Hook race canceled 2019 (https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespeed-fixed-gear/1166862-red-hook-race-canceled-2019-a.html)

thehammerdog 02-20-19 06:26 PM

Red Hook race canceled 2019
 
I am so pissed i got me a track bike just for the red hook
why canceled?

seau grateau 02-20-19 06:49 PM

Organizers couldn't get it funded, from what I've heard. Always seemed like crash bait to me anyway. Anyone who puts a hairpin in a fixed crit shouldn't be organizing races.

Bandera 02-20-19 07:01 PM

https://www.velonews.com/2019/02/new...9-races_483491

TimothyH 02-20-19 07:34 PM

^^ Yep, the short answer is that it was cancelled because of money.

Sad to see it cancelled because it drew lots of attention to fixed gear as a legitimate form of riding.

Keep in mind that the whole thing started as an alley cat race and became a major spectacle. I think it just grew too big for itself and collapsed under its own weight.

Dirty Kanza is at risk for the same thing for the same reasons. All bets are off once you start throwing around six and seven figure corporate sponsorships and have shuttles to bring the athletes from the helipad to the start line.

Now pro tour teams like Education First are going to send squads to gravel races and fixed crits. They will ruin the one's which havn't been ruined by big money already. But I digress.


-Tim-

mouse 02-20-19 08:18 PM

The Cinelli x Red hook frame was also scrapped

Bigpond 02-20-19 09:12 PM

Wow! Huge blow. Thanks, Bandera, for the link. It's hard to imagine they wouldn't have negotiated multi-year contracts with host cities to avoid this. Once you realize fee's have increased why not look to other locations? The races are relevant, the locales less so. I would think Taiwan, Singapore or Hong Kong would kill to be part of the series.
Just seems like they were caught with their pants down and there's a lot riding on these races. Specialized and Cinelli are already tailoring frames for this niche, no doubt others are as well. Are these companies unwilling to sponsor the events?

50voltphantom 02-21-19 09:14 AM

I sincerely hope FG crits continue to be a thing. It seems like crit racing in general seems to be growing bit by bit in the US and FG crits seem to me like a great way for people to get into road racing (and be competitive) without spending boatloads of money on a bike.

SHBR 02-21-19 09:18 AM

I would love to watch this as a spectator.

I wouldn't want to be part of the inevitable pileups as a rider though.

CliffordK 02-21-19 09:45 AM

I hope they make it back, but perhaps go through some reorganization to consider safety as a primary aspect of the race.

If the race doesn't return, then I'd imagine someone else will step into its place.

Daylight, consider the street layout, etc. Make sure the pace vehicle doesn't stall in the middle of the course.

For sponsorship, could it be that there just is no market for high-end "fixie" road bikes? Or at least no perceived market for them?

REDMASTA 02-21-19 10:46 AM

no fixie pile ups :,-(

TMonk 02-21-19 12:21 PM

We could always go back to racing track bikes on the track and road bikes on the road like normal people!!!

^
In case you couldn't tell I'm a bit disgruntled as road (and track) participation has seen a big decline in the past 5-10 years. USAC has done an awful job at fostering participation and growth after the big increase due to the Lance factor. Doesn't help when we have things like Zwift, Gravel and Red Hook taking our racers away.

#curmudgeon

seau grateau 02-21-19 12:21 PM


Originally Posted by CliffordK (Post 20805568)
I hope they make it back, but perhaps go through some reorganization to consider safety as a primary aspect of the race.

If the race doesn't return, then I'd imagine someone else will step into its place.

Daylight, consider the street layout, etc. Make sure the pace vehicle doesn't stall in the middle of the course.

For sponsorship, could it be that there just is no market for high-end "fixie" road bikes? Or at least no perceived market for them?

There's a market, but they give all the bikes away to racers who crash them in RHC.

TMonk 02-21-19 12:22 PM

lol

CliffordK 02-21-19 12:53 PM


Originally Posted by seau grateau (Post 20805835)
There's a market, but they give all the bikes away to racers who crash them in RHC.

Any sponsor looks at overall marketing goals to determine if sponsorship is profitable.

So, give away $10,000 if one thinks it will earn the company $1 Million in sales, and > $100,000 in profit.

The fixie market has found itself a niche that isn't quite full track, and isn't full commuter either.

There has to be significant impact of both vintage bicycle conversions, and the bottom tier imports.

Say, selling bicycles at $1000 each, one only has to sell 1000 bicycles to hit that $1M goal. But, it may be difficult with all the Walmart quality $150 bicycles out there.

And, those individuals in the $1000 fixie market may not be looking at off-the-shelf bikes.

One thing that Redhook has to evaluate is whether brakes make the bikes safer, and if not the races, whether encouraging brakes make community riding safer in general.

seau grateau 02-21-19 01:08 PM

Riding with brakes definitely makes you safer out on the road. As to whether they would make a race safer, maybe, maybe not. In track cycling, for example, you'd never hear anyone who knows the sport put forth the idea that brakes would make it safer. To me, their biggest issue is creating these "technical, exciting" (code for dangerous) courses, and pushing riders to go as fast as possible on them. IMO, if they want to make the races safer (and I believe they should), then the way to do it is either stop designing dangerous courses or impose gearing restrictions. Unfortunately, these things would probably make the races a little less popular, because audiences are attracted to the danger element, but I think creating an environment where riders aren't put at gratuitous risk of serious injury is worth it.

ljsense 02-21-19 01:11 PM

In Wisconsin, they added an open fixed category to all the USA Cycling crit races last year and are continuing it for 2019. It's a 20-minute race that goes off at the end of the day, around 5pm. I didn't try it last year, and the results showed really small fields -- in one case, I think 2 riders. I don't have a fixed gear bike anymore, but started to look around, figuring they'd be everywhere for cheap since I thought the fixie craze was over. But I had a hard time finding anything. I thought there'd be a bunch of track-ish fixies for $400-$600, but not that I saw. And there aren't a lot of companies turning them out new. Trek used to make a fixie; Cannondale had the Capo -- not sure how many big manufacturers are interested in this product anymore.

I question the notion that it is a way to get people into the sport; to me, it seems more intimidating than riding a road bike in a crit. And at least here, I see smaller and smaller crit fields across all categories.

One thing that I do find encouraging about the road racing scene -- crits in particular -- are the videos that Trainer Road are putting up on YouTube. They are really fun, useful videos with great discussion. I love them as a racer, but I also think that they really invite people to try racing.

TimothyH 02-21-19 01:24 PM


Originally Posted by TMonk (Post 20805834)
We could always go back to racing track bikes on the track and road bikes on the road like normal people!!!

^
In case you couldn't tell I'm a bit disgruntled as road (and track) participation has seen a big decline in the past 5-10 years. USAC has done an awful job at fostering participation and growth after the big increase due to the Lance factor. Doesn't help when we have things like Zwift, Gravel and Red Hook taking our racers away.

#curmudgeon


Nobody is "Taking racers away." If people switch to gravel it is of their own volition.

Consider https://www.gravelcyclist.com/traini...ing-by-k-dogg/

I've heard similar sentiments more than once.


-Tim-

TMonk 02-21-19 02:03 PM

Yes they are!!!! They are literally kidnapping racers at start lines, throwing in them in to vans, and driving to the outskirts so they can ride trendy gravel bikes!!!!!

:)

In all seriousness, many of his complaints are valid. Florida is also a special bike scene that seems to be chalk-full of juiced-up meatheads, master's racers and flat-landers. As I mentioned, I'm just a bit disgruntled and can tend to have a snobbish streak when it comes to bike trends.

Bandera 02-21-19 02:16 PM

We heard the same whining for the then USCF when MTB racing started up and those of us tired of the same endless string of 'Crits and not enough 'Cross events took to NORBA racing instead.
It was inventing a new sport, having a great time doing it with stiff competition, challenging courses, terrific technical innovation and no USCF.
Heard it all back-when from the UCI-flavored "elites":

"BMX? Childish nonsense, that will never last."
"Mountain Bike racing? Crazy nonsense, that will never last."
"RAAM?" "Sleep-deprived nonsense, that will never last."

Today: Same. same........

PS: I wouldn't get out there in a FG 'Crit, but I would watch one.

-Bandera

TMonk 02-21-19 02:49 PM

Yeah change is good, ultimately whatever is getting people riding is good. @Bandera funny how the generations change - I ride MTB, which is established enough now to now seem like it's detracting from road to a current road racer like myself. I want to try some XC and I think I'd be fast b/c I'm an excellent bike handler/athletic and can be pretty fit when I'm training.

@TimothyH I figured that you would take issue with the Gravel comment :). As much as it was intended to ruffle some feathers, I am a bit sore as I see a lot of my buddies abandon road for gravel and the scene around here disintegrate. When I started racing there were 7-10 USAC road races in San Diego; now there's two.

Truth be told, I'm a bit tired of how dangerous road riding and racing is, and of how much I have to travel to race these days. I kind of see myself in my final two seasons of road before focusing on track and MTB in the longer haul. So I'm my own worst enemy there. I've prepared significantly for this season (1st/5th/2nd/1st/1st last 5 races) and my fitness, skill and experience is at an all time high. It's all coming together for me which feels great. Barring any incident, I should finally be able to upgrade to cat 2 this year and know what it's like to be on the elite level (P/1/2) before I "hang my cleats up" so to speak.

@TimothyH as I've also mentioned, many of my buddies are doing gravel. Although I poke fun at them for being "hipsters" and trendy, everyone who does it is having a blast, and as the old adage goes "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em." Maybe I'll give it a shot in a few years after the novelty wears off :)

TimothyH 02-21-19 06:47 PM


Originally Posted by TMonk (Post 20806021)
Yes they are!!!! They are literally kidnapping racers at start lines, throwing in them in to vans, and driving to the outskirts so they can ride trendy gravel bikes!!!!!

:)

Where do I sign up for this kidnapping?

-Tim-

TMonk 02-21-19 06:57 PM

At your local USAC RR and crit!!

TimothyH 02-22-19 07:34 AM

There is a Tuesday night crit practice in my area. They close off an area in an industrial park and do laps.

It is pretty formal, with a marshal and flags and everything.

Do you think they would let me ride a fixed gear bike or are they against sanctioning body rules or something?


-Tim-

TMonk 02-22-19 09:27 AM

Hopefully they would! Do you know who organizes it? Course marshals and flags cost something, do they charge? Some "practice crits" like that are actually USAC races. Other ones are just put on by local clubs with some really awesome volunteers.

In college we would just do it at a local industrial park after hours with no road closures or anything. It could be fun to just ride down there and hang out, maybe strike up a convo. with some of the marshals or riders. If they have a categorized A/B/C (or whatever) thing, hopefully the open one (or any of them!) are cool with stuff like that.

Spoonrobot 02-22-19 12:05 PM


Originally Posted by TimothyH (Post 20806955)
There is a Tuesday night crit practice in my area. They close off an area in an industrial park and do laps.

It is pretty formal, with a marshal and flags and everything.

Do you think they would let me ride a fixed gear bike or are they against sanctioning body rules or something?


-Tim-

If you show up for the first time on a fixed gear most likely they’re going to ask you not to ride or stay in the back as last rider. It’s extremely difficult to take the same line as the pack in the two turns at speed on a track bike. You probably know already but every year there’s at least a few crashes and almost always a serious injury. The group will self-regulate extremely harshly if needed.

There’s a couple different guys who come on single speed from time to time and there’s no problem with that.

The Marietta TNC has an active Facebook account so you could always message the organizer and ask. I took a couple guys from the track up there in 2014 and we rode in a little pack as tailgunners, it was pretty enlightening.


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