Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
Reload this Page >

I want a very nice threaded headset

Notices
Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

I want a very nice threaded headset

Old 04-19-19, 05:10 AM
  #1  
bmwjoe
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
bmwjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Telford, PA
Posts: 328

Bikes: Pinarello FP Due, Cesare track bike modified for the street.

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 9 Posts
I want a very nice threaded headset

I am rebuilding my fixed gear after ~20k mikes. This will include replacing the headset. This is my main ride and I want something nice, smooth and durable. I also want it to match the rest of my stuff, which is plain aluminum with small or no logos. The little seal on the top is a big plus to keep my sweat from corroding the steerer/stem. I learned (the hard way) that the Chris King grip-nut headset is not of threaded forks :-(. I believe I have an Italian threaded fork because: the bike is Italian and the current headset says Italy on it.

Three I am looking at:
- Velo Orange
- Campy Record
- Soma

Are there any I missed? Anyone have any good or bad experiences?

Ride Safe,

Joe
bmwjoe is offline  
Old 04-19-19, 06:44 AM
  #2  
50voltphantom
Senior Member
 
50voltphantom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SD
Posts: 2,683

Bikes: Handsome Fredward, Trek 1.1

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 454 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 11 Posts
IRD Technoglide
https://www.retro-gression.com/colle...readed-headset
50voltphantom is offline  
Old 04-19-19, 10:21 AM
  #3  
ryan_rides
Senior Member
 
ryan_rides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: South Florida
Posts: 166

Bikes: Aventon Cordoba 2018

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Chris King.
ryan_rides is offline  
Old 04-19-19, 10:44 AM
  #4  
bmwjoe
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
bmwjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Telford, PA
Posts: 328

Bikes: Pinarello FP Due, Cesare track bike modified for the street.

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 9 Posts
The IRD headset looks nice and meets the requirements. Thanks.

Chris king does not make threaded headsets.

Ride Safe,

Joe
bmwjoe is offline  
Old 04-19-19, 11:05 AM
  #5  
seau grateau
Senior Member
 
seau grateau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: PHL
Posts: 9,725

Bikes: Litespeed, IRO

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1227 Post(s)
Liked 153 Times in 87 Posts
They do, but OK.

https://www.retro-gression.com/colle...readed-headset
seau grateau is offline  
Old 04-19-19, 12:09 PM
  #6  
IAmSam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,308
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked 16 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by bmwjoe View Post
I learned (the hard way) that the Chris King grip-nut headset is not of threaded forks :-(.
???




Originally Posted by bmwjoe View Post
Chris king does not make threaded headsets.
???





Originally Posted by seau grateau View Post

I didn't get what you said in your OP, and you compounded your error in post #4 ...


In fact Chris King makes two 1" threaded headsets - the GripNut that seau grateau linked, and also the 2Nut. I think the difference is that the 2Nut (which is what I have on my bike) has a bigger stack height.


I'm not trying to push Chris King headsets - there are many very nice 1" threaded headsets out there and even something cheap...errr...inexpensive ala Tange-Sekai is surprisingly good. But having said that...


I love my Chris King 2Nut 1" threaded headset - it has served me flawlessly for more years than I care to think about. Prior to my CK, I had a modern production threaded Campag Record Headset for a couple years. It worked fine and they are unexpectedly cheap...errr...inexpensive , I just wanted a change, and since I was over having to have a full-bore Eye-talian build...I figured you can't go wrong with something from Chris King and I've never regretted getting it...
IAmSam is offline  
Old 04-19-19, 12:56 PM
  #7  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 20,643

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1810 Post(s)
Liked 142 Times in 103 Posts
Plenty of nice threaded headsets out there. But first, how much stack height do we have to work with?
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 04-19-19, 03:40 PM
  #8  
seamuis
aire díthrub
 
seamuis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: chatham-savannah
Posts: 554

Bikes: Raleigh Competition, Pashley Roadster Sovereign, Mercian Vincitore Speciale

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 257 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 50 Times in 31 Posts
Wait a minute. Isn’t technically ‘italian’ the same as standard ISO in regards to headsets? Because I thought it was commonplace in Japan for what most might call ‘british’ to be called ‘italian’, or am I wrong? Like aren’t they all 30.2 with 26.4 crown races? And Japanese JIS is 30mm with 27mm crown race? I know some frames have 30.2 with 27 crown races, is that Italian or Taiwanese? I’m a bit confused on this now. Cause Chris King absolutely makes 1” threaded headsets, but I don’t think they make ‘Italian’ or JIS.

Last edited by seamuis; 04-19-19 at 03:43 PM.
seamuis is offline  
Old 04-19-19, 08:42 PM
  #9  
bmwjoe
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
bmwjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Telford, PA
Posts: 328

Bikes: Pinarello FP Due, Cesare track bike modified for the street.

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by IAmSam View Post
???





???








I didn't get what you said in your OP, and you compounded your error in post #4 ...


In fact Chris King makes two 1" threaded headsets - the GripNut that seau grateau linked, and also the 2Nut. I think the difference is that the 2Nut (which is what I have on my bike) has a bigger stack height.


I'm not trying to push Chris King headsets - there are many very nice 1" threaded headsets out there and even something cheap...errr...inexpensive ala Tange-Sekai is surprisingly good. But having said that...


I love my Chris King 2Nut 1" threaded headset - it has served me flawlessly for more years than I care to think about. Prior to my CK, I had a modern production threaded Campag Record Headset for a couple years. It worked fine and they are unexpectedly cheap...errr...inexpensive , I just wanted a change, and since I was over having to have a full-bore Eye-talian build...I figured you can't go wrong with something from Chris King and I've never regretted getting it...
Hmmmm. I stand corrected. I would prefer a Chris King headset. In fact I bought a Grip Nut, but it does not fit. It measures 1" and it looks like the threads will work, but the stem is way too loose in the nut. The hole in the top nut should be 7/8" or so. Mine is much bigger. Does Chris King make other size grip nuts?



There is a large gap between the top nut and the stem. Not correct.
bmwjoe is offline  
Old 04-20-19, 11:33 AM
  #10  
tashi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,280
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
That looks like a 1 1/8" headset to me. CK makes 'em in 1", 1 1/8" and 1 1/4".
tashi is offline  
Old 04-20-19, 06:17 PM
  #11  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 20,643

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1810 Post(s)
Liked 142 Times in 103 Posts
Originally Posted by seamuis View Post
Wait a minute. Isn’t technically ‘italian’ the same as standard ISO in regards to headsets?
They're very close, but not identical. The difference is in the thread angle; Italian threads are cut at a 55° angle, while ISO and English use a 60° angle:


Source: Sutherland's 4th Edition

The difference is not enough to make them incompatible, and the mismatch is recognized as a "class B" fit. If your headset has aluminum threaded parts, the steel steer tube threads will re-form the aluminum threads to match. If both the headset and steer tube are steel, there will be some re-forming of the threads on both parts. This is seldom an issue in use, as long as you don't make a habit of swapping out headsets.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 04-20-19, 11:34 PM
  #12  
I_am_X
Commuting and Pleasure
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: North Germany / Sweden
Posts: 19

Bikes: Nishiki Automatix, Soil Titan SS, Specialized Rock Hopper SS, On-One Inbred

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
If somebody wants to dive deeper into the different threads, there is a very comprehensive overview, guess by whom? Of course, Sheldon Brown:

Sheldon Brown's Bike Glossary

Scroll down a bit for the headsets.

/Björn
I_am_X is offline  
Old 04-20-19, 11:56 PM
  #13  
I_am_X
Commuting and Pleasure
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: North Germany / Sweden
Posts: 19

Bikes: Nishiki Automatix, Soil Titan SS, Specialized Rock Hopper SS, On-One Inbred

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
And check the height of your actual headset. There are noticeable differences in the height, assuming that you want to reuse your fork and it is cut to the height of you actual headset this limits the range of choices. I replaced my Tange once with a Campagnolo and ran almost "out of thread" at the top. Removing one washer helped, but gives a bad feeling thinking about it too much.

And Campagnolo makes really nice treaded headsets, specially the vintage ones....

Here some sample from my bike:




/Björn
I_am_X is offline  
Old 04-21-19, 02:21 AM
  #14  
seamuis
aire díthrub
 
seamuis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: chatham-savannah
Posts: 554

Bikes: Raleigh Competition, Pashley Roadster Sovereign, Mercian Vincitore Speciale

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 257 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 50 Times in 31 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
They're very close, but not identical. The difference is in the thread angle; Italian threads are cut at a 55° angle, while ISO and English use a 60° angle:


Source: Sutherland's 4th Edition

The difference is not enough to make them incompatible, and the mismatch is recognized as a "class B" fit. If your headset has aluminum threaded parts, the steel steer tube threads will re-form the aluminum threads to match. If both the headset and steer tube are steel, there will be some re-forming of the threads on both parts. This is seldom an issue in use, as long as you don't make a habit of swapping out headsets.
thank you for that info, it actually cleared things up. Because I’ve seen reference to ‘italian’, again, mostly from Japanese sources. But it would always be described in conjunction with British, so I thought they were the same. Now I know, they “can be” in the right circumstance. Interesting, if not frustrating. How would a campagnolo headset, say from the 70’s be identifiable as Italian or British? My 77 Raleigh had a campy headset originally, but I’m using a Dura Ace now. I assume it was of course British threaded, but if I were looking for a vintage campy replacement, I’d hate to get the wrong one, considering it is steel.
seamuis is offline  
Old 04-21-19, 06:29 AM
  #15  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 20,643

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1810 Post(s)
Liked 142 Times in 103 Posts
Originally Posted by seamuis View Post
How would a campagnolo headset, say from the 70’s be identifiable as Italian or British?
I'm not sure how early this practice goes, but by the early 80s at least, the threaded parts of English thread Campagnolo headsets would marked "ENGLAND" or "BRITISH:"

JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 04-21-19, 06:33 AM
  #16  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 20,643

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1810 Post(s)
Liked 142 Times in 103 Posts
Originally Posted by I_am_X View Post
And check the height of your actual headset. There are noticeable differences in the height, assuming that you want to reuse your fork and it is cut to the height of you actual headset this limits the range of choices. I replaced my Tange once with a Campagnolo and ran almost "out of thread" at the top. Removing one washer helped, but gives a bad feeling thinking about it too much.
BITD, we'd use a Campagnolo "pista" or Gran Sport headset in cases like that, as either of those models have several millimeters shorter stack than the Record "strada" or Super record headsets.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 04-21-19, 07:42 AM
  #17  
seamuis
aire díthrub
 
seamuis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: chatham-savannah
Posts: 554

Bikes: Raleigh Competition, Pashley Roadster Sovereign, Mercian Vincitore Speciale

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 257 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 50 Times in 31 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
I'm not sure how early this practice goes, but by the early 80s at least, the threaded parts of English thread Campagnolo headsets would marked "ENGLAND" or "BRITISH:"
Thanks mate.
seamuis is offline  
Old 04-23-19, 03:51 PM
  #18  
nightfly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,232
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 4 Posts
+1 on the IRD

Techno-Glide Threaded Headsets ? Interloc Racing Design / IRD
nightfly is offline  
Old 04-23-19, 04:31 PM
  #19  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 23,008
Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9231 Post(s)
Liked 209 Times in 162 Posts
Stronglight makes a sealed bearing headset.

I'd prefer my bearing cups to be fully covered from the top side.

CliffordK is offline  
Old 04-23-19, 05:40 PM
  #20  
Dave Mayer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,861
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 654 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 33 Times in 21 Posts
Best threaded headset ever? Shimano cartridge-bearing units from the 90s. Such as XT, LX, 600, Dura-Ace. Actually the 600 units were the best, in that they shared all of the same parts as Dura-Ace, except steel instead of the easily-damaged alloy crown race featured with Dura-Ace.

Before you commit to a headset, research what actually kills headsets. It is false brinelling. For every one headset killed by corrosion, I see 5 killed by false brinelling. Road headsets are alost exclusively killed this way.

It seems that Shimano was the only headset maker that figured out the solution to this problem. They can still be found on Fleabay. Just make sure you don't get one of the orphaned and useless JIS models.
Dave Mayer is offline  
Old 04-24-19, 07:36 AM
  #21  
seamuis
aire díthrub
 
seamuis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: chatham-savannah
Posts: 554

Bikes: Raleigh Competition, Pashley Roadster Sovereign, Mercian Vincitore Speciale

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 257 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 50 Times in 31 Posts
Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
Best threaded headset ever? Shimano cartridge-bearing units from the 90s. Such as XT, LX, 600, Dura-Ace. Actually the 600 units were the best, in that they shared all of the same parts as Dura-Ace, except steel instead of the easily-damaged alloy crown race featured with Dura-Ace.

Before you commit to a headset, research what actually kills headsets. It is false brinelling. For every one headset
killed by corrosion, I see 5 killed by false brinelling. Road headsets are alost exclusively killed this way.

It seems that Shimano was the only headset maker that figured out the solution to this problem. They can still be found on Fleabay. Just make sure you don't get one of the orphaned and useless JIS models.
Worth noting that aluminium cartridge bearing headsets from shimano typically have a higher stack height than any classic campy or other steel headset. The good thing about the Chris king gripnut is that it significantly reduces the stack height. Just a point of concern, depending on the length of your steerer. As someone who rides both a dura ace 7410 headset (cartridge bearing) a chris king, I’m not sure I could say my dura ace is better, much less ‘ the best’. But I’m not sure I could say that about the king either. The not only smoothest and nicest headset (design, build quality) that I’ve ever had the pleasure of using was the Hatta Swan Super Deluxe. But that was a JIS headset on an NJS track frame. The Dura ace 7410 is a very good headset though, and the shimano cartridges can actuallly be easily taken apart and regreased or replace the bearings. Just don’t loose the rubber o-ring in the locknut.
seamuis is offline  
Old 04-24-19, 07:22 PM
  #22  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 20,643

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1810 Post(s)
Liked 142 Times in 103 Posts
Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
Before you commit to a headset, research what actually kills headsets. It is false brinelling. For every one headset killed by corrosion, I see 5 killed by false brinelling. Road headsets are alost exclusively killed this way.

It seems that Shimano was the only headset maker that figured out the solution to this problem. They can still be found on Fleabay.
I think the Stronglight A9 roller bearing headset figured it out well before Shimano's cartridge bearing units.

I did an experiment with a Stronglight A9. In 1988 I built up a commuter bike using a Stronglight A9 headset. I rode it for 20 years in all kinds of conditions, and did zero maintenance on it. In 2008 I opened it up to see how it had fared. This is what I found on the races after cleaning:



Very slight discoloration on the lower races; nothing untoward on the upper. I swapped upper and lower races and re-assembled. I'll check again in 2028, but since I retired in 2016, I no longer have to commute in inclement weather.

Last edited by JohnDThompson; 04-24-19 at 07:26 PM.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 09-19-19, 03:41 PM
  #23  
brooklyn6640 
Senior Member
 
brooklyn6640's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Spain
Posts: 106

Bikes: Tommasini, Caad 7 , Seven, Pinarello

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Ck

Originally Posted by bmwjoe View Post
The IRD headset looks nice and meets the requirements. Thanks.

Chris king does not make threaded headsets.

Ride Safe,

Joe
https://chrisking.com/collections/2nut-and-gripnut
brooklyn6640 is offline  
Old 09-19-19, 03:49 PM
  #24  
nightfly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,232
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 4 Posts
5 months later I think maybe the OP has this figured out...
nightfly is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
etlie
Classic & Vintage
32
12-19-15 12:05 PM
bananabacon
Road Cycling
23
07-19-15 03:00 AM
sindlero
Bicycle Mechanics
5
11-06-11 02:39 PM
illdthedj
Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
15
10-29-10 03:54 PM
teamtrinity
Road Cycling
11
02-02-10 03:12 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.