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Crankset hitting frame

Old 09-29-19, 06:26 PM
  #1  
ceelint
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Crankset hitting frame

Put a Record Pista crankset on my Wabi and it's hitting the frame on the NDS.. chainline is also pushed outward. I used a Origin8 Torqlite BB that's supposed to fit this crankset.

https://www.velomine.com/index.php?m...ftcqhck3knec24

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Old 09-29-19, 07:38 PM
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I would return the BB and look for another one and don't ride the bike until you have both correct clearance and a good chainline.

I've had this problem, and I had to replace my BB to get it correct.
You may even have to get a new set of cranks (even though those look like a mighty fine pair).
If you get a BB with more clearance, your chainline will be even further off. You could fudge around with your rear wheel spacing, but then your rear wheel is slightly off center (not the biggest deal in the world, but you may notice).
TBH it's probably not worth it unless you really really love those cranks.
I'm sure they can sell really well on the used market.

You're lucky the crank arm hit the frame, because a lot of people's first instinct (I did this once) when correcting chainline or putting cranks on is to tighten those things as much as possible.
Fun quip:
They actually have a specific torque that you're supposed to apply (You can get the general feel of it after doing it a few times).
If you overtighten, you will flare the crank arm and a few weeks down the line you'll notice that your arm is just "loose". Naturally, you'll tighten it back on again and it will roll fine for a couple of weeks or so, then suddenly it will be loose again.
At some point, you'll start carrying an 8mm allen wrench with you because it just "keeps getting loose" every other day.
Finally, you will realize that your crank simply will not tighten even though you have literally touched the head of the bolt to the end of the BB spindle. At this point, your arm is completely flared and you have to replace it.

That's why 2 piece splined designs are far superior.

Also, chainline is a very sensitive thing as well. You could potentially wear your sprocket thin or skip a few teeth at (always) the worst possible moment.

Last edited by BicycleBicycle; 09-29-19 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 09-29-19, 08:25 PM
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Is that an asymmetric BB? And if so, could it be installed backwards?
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Old 09-29-19, 08:51 PM
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I've contacted Velomine and he said he'd exchange for a different one, which is good... I've already tossed my old cranks back on the bike until I get this sorted. I believe it is asymmetrical (not sure if by error or design though), spindle is longer on driveside than NDS. If it were symmetrical I think it'd fit fine, because the amount pushed out on DS would definitely make it clear NDS.

Don't think it's possible to install backwards, plus it's labelled left/right
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Old 09-30-19, 08:00 AM
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Wabi emailed me back this morning with a FAQ link.. hmmm

Wabi framesets were designed around our Wabi 144mm BCD cranksets with a 103mm bottom bracket spindle length. These provide the optimal compatibility. For upgrades, we typically recommend the Sugino RD2 or SRAM S-300 as options with no clearance issues. These upgrades may set the chainline off by ~1mm or so, but we have found this to be inconsequential--especially with 3/32" chains.

We have seen clearance issues with certain 144mm BCD cranksets with either longer bottom bracket spindles or narrower Q factors on the Classic, Special and Thunder framesets. These include the SRAM Ominium, Sugino 75, Miche Primato Advanced Track and the Campagnolo Record Pista cranksets. These cranksets will either have the crank spider arms hit the chain stay or have the crank arm itself hit the chain stays. Some people have successfully used longer bottom bracket spindle lengths (i.e. 107mm) or shorter crank arm lengths (165mm) to get the proper clearance. However, longer bottom bracket spindle lengths can cause chainline issues, which can be noticeable with stiffer 1/8" chains. Some riders have also added a small spacer on the hub behind the freewheel or fixed cog to provide better chainline alignment.

The SRAM Omnium and Sugino 75 are compatible with the Lightning frameset based on user feedback and internal testing. The clearances are tight, but should be sufficient for most riders.

130mm BCD cranksets should be compatible with all frames if they are designed for a 103mm bottom brackset spindle length. However, given the wide variety of designs on the market, we can't guarantee that will be the case.
​​​​​
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Old 09-30-19, 09:08 AM
  #6  
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That's like half the high-end track cranks on the market. I really struggle to understand how Wabi maintains popularity with glaring design flaws like this, but
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Old 09-30-19, 11:22 AM
  #7  
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Originally Posted by ceelint View Post
Wabi emailed me back this morning with a FAQ link.. hmmm



​​​​​
Pretty bizarre statement for a company who used to get such high praise around here. I never knew they had a problem with higher end cranksets on their frames, I would be pretty annoyed if I were you.
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Old 09-30-19, 11:27 AM
  #8  
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Oh, I am... Believe me. Told them I was gonna try a symmetrical BB and they replied with this
Let us know how it works with the symmetrical BB. We'll do what we can to help you out.


Not sure what they could possibly do to help me out
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Old 09-30-19, 12:36 PM
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You could try putting a spacer on the drive side of the BB to push it out depending on if you have extra space on the non drive side.
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Old 09-30-19, 01:02 PM
  #10  
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if a new bb doesn't solve the problem find a shop or frame builder to dimple your chain stay. i plan on getting the chain stays of my sword dimpled on the inside to fit 32c tires. steel is real.
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Old 09-30-19, 01:30 PM
  #11  
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It looks to me like that Origin-8 has too much asymmetry. The crankset looks to be about a chain width too far right in the top photo. With that to the left, I suspect your chian would line up nicely and the crank would clear nicely. (Can the crankset move that far inboard and the chainring still clear the chainstay? If yes, you might ask Origin-8 if they have a same length, symmetrical BB.

I run a Sugino 75 with a stock Miche pista BB. Very close to symmetrical. Both cranks are close to , but not too close to the the chainstays.

Granted, my frame and parts are all slightly different. But the Sugino 75s are ISO standard specifically to be compatible with Campagnolo and race/track infield friendly. My frame is a custom titanium job but no different from any other velodrome worthy steel track bike except for a road specific dropout (spaced the track-standard 120 mm) with the usual English standard 68 mm BB shell and threading.

I don't know who makes Origin-8 and how good their quality control is (ie how closely they adhere to the standards for spindle measurements and tapers). Shimano is very good on that score. I suspect Sugino is also. If you can find a known ISO standard BB from either of them, you could mount it and the cranks, then measure how much more or less spindle you need on each side. If you cannot find what you need, Phil Wood would be happy to make it (for a small sum, granted.)

Ben
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Old 09-30-19, 01:57 PM
  #12  
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Velomine is awesome, that's all I gotta say.. payed the $15 for the upgrade to the symmetrical Campy Centaur BB with a 111mm spindle.. he's sending it with a return label for the Org8 BB...🤞🏼🤞🏼🤞🏼 It works fine or I may look into having chainstays dimpled
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Old 09-30-19, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by seau grateau View Post
That's like half the high-end track cranks on the market. I really struggle to understand how Wabi maintains popularity with glaring design flaws like this, but
I think that selling completes is their main thing. And it seems like they are targeting people who just want a bike that they aren't going to mess around with much.
I've looked into it, and their completes already come stock with some pretty decent parts and could just be ridden as is and just maintained.

But I just looked at their site again and saw that they are selling framesets now.
That is kind of weird.
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Old 09-30-19, 04:24 PM
  #14  
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They've sold framesets for a while. Got mine 2.5 yrs ago
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Old 09-30-19, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
It looks to me like that Origin-8 has too much asymmetry. The crankset looks to be about a chain width too far right in the top photo. With that to the left, I suspect your chian would line up nicely and the crank would clear nicely. (Can the crankset move that far inboard and the chainring still clear the chainstay? If yes, you might ask Origin-8 if they have a same length, symmetrical BB.

I run a Sugino 75 with a stock Miche pista BB. Very close to symmetrical. Both cranks are close to , but not too close to the the chainstays.

Granted, my frame and parts are all slightly different. But the Sugino 75s are ISO standard specifically to be compatible with Campagnolo and race/track infield friendly. My frame is a custom titanium job but no different from any other velodrome worthy steel track bike except for a road specific dropout (spaced the track-standard 120 mm) with the usual English standard 68 mm BB shell and threading.

I don't know who makes Origin-8 and how good their quality control is (ie how closely they adhere to the standards for spindle measurements and tapers). Shimano is very good on that score. I suspect Sugino is also. If you can find a known ISO standard BB from either of them, you could mount it and the cranks, then measure how much more or less spindle you need on each side. If you cannot find what you need, Phil Wood would be happy to make it (for a small sum, granted.)

Ben
I'm frequently surprised at the quality of their components on all but the tarckiest of the tarck, and even then it's at the midrange standard.
They are a wholesaler for J&B Imports, and their parts are re-brands of many bike companies that also make parts for other companies that re-brand them.
The difference is that you don't pay a brand name price premium for Origin8. So you would see Origin8 branded Wellgo pedals, Formula hubs, etc.
I've also seen many stems/parts that other companies just put their name on that are literally exactly the same parts that Origin8 sells.
They come from the silicon valley of bikes - Taiwan. Modern labor laws and a long history of bike manufacturing = pretty high quality stuff.
Taiwan even has smaller frame builders now that All City uses.
Certainly better quality than what comes on those newer internet bikes.
The components on those bikes look like they just threw whatever metal they had laying around into a blast furnace and assembled them with questionable modern slave labor under tin roofs. Aluminum on a bike component shouldn't have the color and consistency of a paper clip.
I can feel them stress fracturing and peeling apart just by looking at them. That combined with the fact that they are made to look in every way like a decent cool modern bike really breaks my heart and rubs me the wrong way for some reason. I'm nothing close to a bike snob, but I just feel like they are taking the "spirit" out of a bike. 'I'd rather buy 10 year old bikes and parts on craigslist.
Sorry, that got a little long winded.

Anyways, it's all up to spec industry standard aftermarket quality stuff. Not the best of the best, but totally proper. All 7075/6061, cromoly, properly graded bolts for clamping components, machined to decent standards, etc. I would trust their BB's to be of acceptable quality. I've noticed that most of these companies use ISO rather than JIS.
Then again, I've never busted out a micrometer and compared them to higher end aftermarket like Phil/Paul et al.

You would be surprised at how many parts I've seen that are basically just re-branded J&B imports though. Like literally any complete under $1000 (Major differences in the $500-$1000 SS complete range seem to mostly be in the frame, whereas in geared bikes it seems to come down to the groupset), and any part in the $30-$70 range from any manufacturer.
Unless i'm building a dream bike, I would most likely cheap out on everything except the cockpit and the rims with Wellgo/Formula/Avenir/Origin8 stuff because anything slightly more expensive is all made in the same area in probably the same factories.

Last edited by BicycleBicycle; 09-30-19 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 10-01-19, 07:40 AM
  #16  
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I've been running a 165mm Record Pista crank for years - on three different frames ranging from modest, through nice, to finally very nice; and with 4 different bottom brackets including a "matching" Campag Record Pista, a Tifosi that was very similar to, if not exactly the same as your O8, an OmniRacer (or something like that) with ceramic and Ti bells and whistles that claimed to be the world's lightest BB, to currently a Phil's...and at times the clearance may have been close but never-ever did it hit a stay. I could go on and on about this subject but have to head out now, perhaps someone here might find this interesting:

Square Taper Bottom Bracket Right-Side Factors
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Old 10-01-19, 11:07 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by REDMASTA View Post
if a new bb doesn't solve the problem find a shop or frame builder to dimple your chain stay. i plan on getting the chain stays of my sword dimpled on the inside to fit 32c tires. steel is real.
This was my thought. Sounds drastic but is probably the most elegant solution.
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Old 10-04-19, 03:35 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by seau grateau View Post
That's like half the high-end track cranks on the market. I really struggle to understand how Wabi maintains popularity with glaring design flaws like this, but
How popular is Wabi, though? I know they get plugged a lot on YouTube. I hadn’t heard about this issue. how are you going to be probably compatible with s75 “according to user feedback”?
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Old 10-04-19, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Playinintraffic View Post
How popular is Wabi, though? I know they get plugged a lot on YouTube. I hadn’t heard about this issue. how are you going to be probably compatible with s75 “according to user feedback”?
I rarely see them in the wild, but they gained kind of a cult following in their early days because the guy who started the company was pretty knowledgeable and helpful or something. Their YouTube shill is pretty reliable and the seem to still get recommended pretty often around here. I dunno, they'd be good bikes if they didn't have certain dumb and easy to fix issues.
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Old 10-08-19, 01:15 PM
  #20  
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Well, got the correct bottom bracket, chainline was good, but still hit chainstay.... Looks like I'm just gonna sell this if anyone may be interested. Pretty much new in box.. only been mounted to realize it won't fit my frame. PM me for inquiries.



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Old 10-08-19, 01:24 PM
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waaabiiiii :-(((((((((
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Old 10-08-19, 01:50 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by REDMASTA View Post
waaabiiiii :-(((((((((
Yep... While I love my bike, highly disappointed about the crank issue

165mm may work, but 170mm definitely doesn't
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Old 10-08-19, 03:31 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by ceelint View Post
Well, got the correct bottom bracket, chainline was good, but still hit chainstay.... Looks like I'm just gonna sell this if anyone may be interested. Pretty much new in box.. only been mounted to realize it won't fit my frame. PM me for inquiries.
Have you thought about getting the frame dimpled like others have suggested?
The loss on those cranks after sale could probably go towards dimpling.
You're probably going to lose at least $60 on the sale.
I can't imagine that it would cost more than $150 and that's probably on the more expensive end of things.
I've been quoted prices by custom frame makers for more involved things (adding mounts to a frame), and the price was near that range.

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Old 10-08-19, 03:41 PM
  #24  
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Not sure who would do it around here... and I'd imagine the paint would likely crack and chip away at the dimpled spots
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Old 10-10-19, 01:36 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by ceelint View Post
...165mm may work, but 170mm definitely doesn't
I didn't see that your crankarms are 170mm long mentioned(?) til your pics in post 20 - but I very much doubt that 5mm shorter would solve your problem.

You'd be better off keeping that crankset and finding a new frame
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