2006 Bianchi Pista
07-05-05, 04:01 PM
#28
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I chose my Pista despite the chrome.
I can't imagine someone choosing a bike based on finish alone.
Anyway, I fail to see the difference in quality between the Pista, Fuji, IRO and KHS.
I went back and forth between the four choices for weeks before I made a decision.
I liked the threadless headset on Pista, IRO and KHS.
I would have had to wait several weeks for a KHS.
I have a Bianchi dealer just down the street who offered me all sorts of discounts and upgrades.
My son told me the cheaper the bike the more justified the upgrades.
I got new pedals, a different bar, several different stems and experimented with chainrings, cogs, chains and tires.
I've had a blast with this little rocket.
So I need a new headset: big deal.
No heartache over the old headset and I wish my BB would fail so I could replace it, too.
One of my Flight Nurses, a former professional triathelete and bicycle racer of some repute, told me to hang on to the frame and build a nice bike around it.
I went to a local custom frame builder and didn't see where he could give me a better frame, and especially not a thousand dollar better frame.
I've come to like the idea of building my idea of a perfect fixed gear bike around a collection of cheap, mass-produced, Taiwanese, Italian-Huffy, tig-welded steel tubing.
I love my Pista.
What other people think of me or my bike matters not a whit.
I have no one here for whom to pose.
No one gets it here in Bend and no one sees my fixed-gear bike.
I suspect the same holds true in the Big City.
Anyway, I think a lot of people wear cars as costumes.
I guess people do that with bikes, too.
I wonder what color or kind of bike I'd ride if no one could see it except myself.
I can't imagine someone choosing a bike based on finish alone.
Anyway, I fail to see the difference in quality between the Pista, Fuji, IRO and KHS.
I went back and forth between the four choices for weeks before I made a decision.
I liked the threadless headset on Pista, IRO and KHS.
I would have had to wait several weeks for a KHS.
I have a Bianchi dealer just down the street who offered me all sorts of discounts and upgrades.
My son told me the cheaper the bike the more justified the upgrades.
I got new pedals, a different bar, several different stems and experimented with chainrings, cogs, chains and tires.
I've had a blast with this little rocket.
So I need a new headset: big deal.
No heartache over the old headset and I wish my BB would fail so I could replace it, too.
One of my Flight Nurses, a former professional triathelete and bicycle racer of some repute, told me to hang on to the frame and build a nice bike around it.
I went to a local custom frame builder and didn't see where he could give me a better frame, and especially not a thousand dollar better frame.
I've come to like the idea of building my idea of a perfect fixed gear bike around a collection of cheap, mass-produced, Taiwanese, Italian-Huffy, tig-welded steel tubing.
I love my Pista.
What other people think of me or my bike matters not a whit.
I have no one here for whom to pose.
No one gets it here in Bend and no one sees my fixed-gear bike.
I suspect the same holds true in the Big City.
Anyway, I think a lot of people wear cars as costumes.
I guess people do that with bikes, too.
I wonder what color or kind of bike I'd ride if no one could see it except myself.
07-05-05, 04:18 PM
#29
Making Records
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One of my Flight Nurses, a former professional triathelete and bicycle racer of some repute, told me to hang on to the frame and build a nice bike around it.
I went to a local custom frame builder and didn't see where he could give me a better frame, and especially not a thousand dollar better frame.
I went to a local custom frame builder and didn't see where he could give me a better frame, and especially not a thousand dollar better frame.
Track frames pretty much only get nicer as you move up from the Pista, and they can get a LOT nicer. if you really want a nice frame, go check out https://www.donwalkercycles.com/
Seriously. Super stiff. Light. Beautifully made. You could hand it down to your great grandchildren.
07-05-05, 04:21 PM
#30
Matthew Grimm / Flunky
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Originally Posted by 53-11_alltheway
The steel is low-end too, but I don't think I care about weight on a track bike as much anyway. lowend steel is usually heavier that's all.
All don't all steel alloys weigh the same?
07-05-05, 06:43 PM
#31
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Dokushoka wrote:
"Seriously. Super stiff. Light. Beautifully made. You could hand it down to your great grandchildren."
Well, why I can't I hand down my Pista to my grandchildren?
Will it fail?
Come apart?
I had an interesting conversation with the Mercian folks about the different grades of tubing.
They described them as making little difference in weight and certainly not enough to justify the expense of the super grades of tubing, with the exception of 853.
Rather, they said, the difference lay in the subjective handling of a frame made of the different steel alloys.
They said if I didn't already know the difference in handling between 631 and 725, for example, to go with the cheapest.
As for aesthetics, I don't care for Don Walker Cycles.
A matter of taste.
I prefer Jonnycycle, Mercian and Bob Jackson frames with no frills.
Do I want to pay an extra $1000-$1200 for a pretty frame?
Maybe.
However, I can put that same amount of money into components on my Pista and have just as hot a rocket as if I spent twice as much on a Mercian.
Twelve Hundred dollars would just about get me all the goodies except for the frame and might take a pound, maybe even a pound and a half of weight off of it.
The Pista already weighs 18 pounds.
If I take off too much more weight it might float away.
Besides, someday I could get a Mercian Super Vigorelli and take all the good stuff off the Pista and put it on the Mercian.
The Mercian wouldn't weigh any less and it would have about the same geometry as my Pista.
I'd really only gain beautiful lugs and a magnificent paint job.
The Pista represents a good place to store parts, like a rolling warehouse.
After all, what does a frame really do?
It keeps the wheels apart; sets the distance from seat to pedals to bars; its geometry determines the handling; and it otherwise keeps all the components in close proximity to each other.
Like I said, what kind of bike would a person ride if no one could see it except for himself?
"Seriously. Super stiff. Light. Beautifully made. You could hand it down to your great grandchildren."
Well, why I can't I hand down my Pista to my grandchildren?
Will it fail?
Come apart?
I had an interesting conversation with the Mercian folks about the different grades of tubing.
They described them as making little difference in weight and certainly not enough to justify the expense of the super grades of tubing, with the exception of 853.
Rather, they said, the difference lay in the subjective handling of a frame made of the different steel alloys.
They said if I didn't already know the difference in handling between 631 and 725, for example, to go with the cheapest.
As for aesthetics, I don't care for Don Walker Cycles.
A matter of taste.
I prefer Jonnycycle, Mercian and Bob Jackson frames with no frills.
Do I want to pay an extra $1000-$1200 for a pretty frame?
Maybe.
However, I can put that same amount of money into components on my Pista and have just as hot a rocket as if I spent twice as much on a Mercian.
Twelve Hundred dollars would just about get me all the goodies except for the frame and might take a pound, maybe even a pound and a half of weight off of it.
The Pista already weighs 18 pounds.
If I take off too much more weight it might float away.
Besides, someday I could get a Mercian Super Vigorelli and take all the good stuff off the Pista and put it on the Mercian.
The Mercian wouldn't weigh any less and it would have about the same geometry as my Pista.
I'd really only gain beautiful lugs and a magnificent paint job.
The Pista represents a good place to store parts, like a rolling warehouse.
After all, what does a frame really do?
It keeps the wheels apart; sets the distance from seat to pedals to bars; its geometry determines the handling; and it otherwise keeps all the components in close proximity to each other.
Like I said, what kind of bike would a person ride if no one could see it except for himself?
07-05-05, 06:48 PM
#32
hateful little monkey
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Originally Posted by Ken Cox
Like I said, what kind of bike would a person ride if no one could see it except for himself?
07-05-05, 11:29 PM
#34
Making Records
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Originally Posted by Ken Cox
Dokushoka wrote:
"Seriously. Super stiff. Light. Beautifully made. You could hand it down to your great grandchildren."
Well, why I can't I hand down my Pista to my grandchildren?
Will it fail?
Come apart?
I had an interesting conversation with the Mercian folks about the different grades of tubing.
They described them as making little difference in weight and certainly not enough to justify the expense of the super grades of tubing, with the exception of 853.
Rather, they said, the difference lay in the subjective handling of a frame made of the different steel alloys.
They said if I didn't already know the difference in handling between 631 and 725, for example, to go with the cheapest.
As for aesthetics, I don't care for Don Walker Cycles.
A matter of taste.
I prefer Jonnycycle, Mercian and Bob Jackson frames with no frills.
Do I want to pay an extra $1000-$1200 for a pretty frame?
Maybe.
However, I can put that same amount of money into components on my Pista and have just as hot a rocket as if I spent twice as much on a Mercian.
Twelve Hundred dollars would just about get me all the goodies except for the frame and might take a pound, maybe even a pound and a half of weight off of it.
The Pista already weighs 18 pounds.
If I take off too much more weight it might float away.
Besides, someday I could get a Mercian Super Vigorelli and take all the good stuff off the Pista and put it on the Mercian.
The Mercian wouldn't weigh any less and it would have about the same geometry as my Pista.
I'd really only gain beautiful lugs and a magnificent paint job.
The Pista represents a good place to store parts, like a rolling warehouse.
After all, what does a frame really do?
It keeps the wheels apart; sets the distance from seat to pedals to bars; its geometry determines the handling; and it otherwise keeps all the components in close proximity to each other.
Like I said, what kind of bike would a person ride if no one could see it except for himself?
"Seriously. Super stiff. Light. Beautifully made. You could hand it down to your great grandchildren."
Well, why I can't I hand down my Pista to my grandchildren?
Will it fail?
Come apart?
I had an interesting conversation with the Mercian folks about the different grades of tubing.
They described them as making little difference in weight and certainly not enough to justify the expense of the super grades of tubing, with the exception of 853.
Rather, they said, the difference lay in the subjective handling of a frame made of the different steel alloys.
They said if I didn't already know the difference in handling between 631 and 725, for example, to go with the cheapest.
As for aesthetics, I don't care for Don Walker Cycles.
A matter of taste.
I prefer Jonnycycle, Mercian and Bob Jackson frames with no frills.
Do I want to pay an extra $1000-$1200 for a pretty frame?
Maybe.
However, I can put that same amount of money into components on my Pista and have just as hot a rocket as if I spent twice as much on a Mercian.
Twelve Hundred dollars would just about get me all the goodies except for the frame and might take a pound, maybe even a pound and a half of weight off of it.
The Pista already weighs 18 pounds.
If I take off too much more weight it might float away.
Besides, someday I could get a Mercian Super Vigorelli and take all the good stuff off the Pista and put it on the Mercian.
The Mercian wouldn't weigh any less and it would have about the same geometry as my Pista.
I'd really only gain beautiful lugs and a magnificent paint job.
The Pista represents a good place to store parts, like a rolling warehouse.
After all, what does a frame really do?
It keeps the wheels apart; sets the distance from seat to pedals to bars; its geometry determines the handling; and it otherwise keeps all the components in close proximity to each other.
Like I said, what kind of bike would a person ride if no one could see it except for himself?
I guess the Jonny Cycles stuff looks cool, if you're into lugged frames and stuff, but he is (admittedly) a newer frame builder (he's only built about 25 frames). Guys like Walker and Mikkelessen have built a whole lot of bikes and could tell you more than you'd ever want to know about frames. They're true craftsman who can't be rivaled by Taiwan for quality. Ask around, or better yet, go for a test ride...
As far as upgrading the components on your Pista, while I'm sure it would improve it, a frame is a frame. Its never going to have the stiffness, lightness or responsiveness of some of the other frames that you are so quick to dismiss.
07-05-05, 11:35 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by Kogswell
How is 520 low end?
All don't all steel alloys weigh the same?
All don't all steel alloys weigh the same?
You can draw the tubes thinner, thus save weight.
I don't know if I really care that a track frame weighs a 1/2 lb more anyway.
What's important to me is the geometry. The pista has traditional track geometry (steep seat tube angle with a decent length top tube so I hunch over on it. I forgot how high the pista BB is, but I'm sure it's higher than a road conversion)
07-06-05, 08:25 PM
#36
Senior Member
Who doesn't like a stock Pista? They're the best stock track bikes you can buy for the money. Not even the langster is as nice as the Pista. Also, every bike is made in Taiwan or China or Japan now. You can't buy a bike for 500 bucks that's made in the US. Ya know, sometimes it's not the bike but the engine.
07-06-05, 11:43 PM
#37
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True about the engine.
But I can see why BianchiUSA went with Sugino cranks and cartridge BB for the 05.
Who makes the cartridge BB for the 05?
I think that you get enough decent parts with a stock pista that you can use them long enough to slowly save and upgrade for better parts. Keeps the price point compelling. For 450-550 it is a sweet purchase.
Like I hate that chrome seat, but it is comfy enough that I'll wait and save up for a Brooks team pro.
BB isn't great, but it will work well enough until you can afford to upgrade. Same with all the other parts.
If the pista came with top parts they wouldn't be that successful for Bianchi. And any product that keeps a classic bike company afloat is cool with me. Plus once you "outgrow" the pista you start looking for a sweet track ride for your local velo. So you get to support other companies, and your local velodrome community as well.
Win-win-win baby.
But I can see why BianchiUSA went with Sugino cranks and cartridge BB for the 05.
Who makes the cartridge BB for the 05?
I think that you get enough decent parts with a stock pista that you can use them long enough to slowly save and upgrade for better parts. Keeps the price point compelling. For 450-550 it is a sweet purchase.
Like I hate that chrome seat, but it is comfy enough that I'll wait and save up for a Brooks team pro.
BB isn't great, but it will work well enough until you can afford to upgrade. Same with all the other parts.
If the pista came with top parts they wouldn't be that successful for Bianchi. And any product that keeps a classic bike company afloat is cool with me. Plus once you "outgrow" the pista you start looking for a sweet track ride for your local velo. So you get to support other companies, and your local velodrome community as well.
Win-win-win baby.
07-07-05, 12:30 AM
#38
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Originally Posted by Ken Cox
The Pista represents a good place to store parts, like a rolling warehouse.
After all, what does a frame really do?
It keeps the wheels apart; sets the distance from seat to pedals to bars; its geometry determines the handling; and it otherwise keeps all the components in close proximity to each other.
After all, what does a frame really do?
It keeps the wheels apart; sets the distance from seat to pedals to bars; its geometry determines the handling; and it otherwise keeps all the components in close proximity to each other.
I'm no racer by anyone's definition, but a friend pointed out that when I stand up and accelerate on my Steamroller, he could just keep up, but when I do the same on the Rodriguez, he couldn't ..... by a noticeable margin. Having said that, I have another friend (with a KHS Flite 100) who can kick my butt regardless which bike I ride, so clearly, a great frame isn't going to make you a great rider but it will make for a great ride.
Jim
07-07-05, 03:09 AM
#39
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Originally Posted by jimv
Well, my OX Platinum Rodriguez and my 4130 Steamroller weigh about the same. The Rodriguez is a larger frame and is built with larger diameter tubing so techinically (per unit volume I guess) the Rodriguez is lighter, but it's not just about weight. When I climb a hill, the Rodriquez 'feels' like it's half the weight of the Steamroller. The ride quality can vary dramatically depending on the alloy. Clearly, more of my pedalling effort is directed to the forward motion of the bike and the Rodriguez's frame gives up less to the side-to-side wag of my bottom bracket and lower frame. It's not a nuance thing.....it's in your face.
I'm no racer by anyone's definition, but a friend pointed out that when I stand up and accelerate on my Steamroller, he could just keep up, but when I do the same on the Rodriguez, he couldn't ..... by a noticeable margin. Having said that, I have another friend (with a KHS Flite 100) who can kick my butt regardless which bike I ride, so clearly, a great frame isn't going to make you a great rider but it will make for a great ride.
Jim
I'm no racer by anyone's definition, but a friend pointed out that when I stand up and accelerate on my Steamroller, he could just keep up, but when I do the same on the Rodriguez, he couldn't ..... by a noticeable margin. Having said that, I have another friend (with a KHS Flite 100) who can kick my butt regardless which bike I ride, so clearly, a great frame isn't going to make you a great rider but it will make for a great ride.
Jim
I think it would be cool to see a track frame made out of columbus max for example.
Nice bike BTW https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespeed-fixed-gear/39614-your-fixie-ss-photos.html (I love those track ends too)
Last edited by 53-11_alltheway; 07-07-05 at 03:25 AM.
07-07-05, 11:24 AM
#40
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Originally Posted by 53-11_alltheway
Yeah....Oversize tubing works from a stiffness perspective.
I think it would be cool to see a track frame made out of columbus max for example.
Nice bike BTW https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=39614 (I love those track ends too)
I think it would be cool to see a track frame made out of columbus max for example.
Nice bike BTW https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=39614 (I love those track ends too)
Jim
Here's the new setup:
07-07-05, 01:26 PM
#41
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Dokushoka wrote:
"I'm just saying that you can certainly get a better performing bike."
How so?
What role does the frame play in performance, beyond geometry and weight?
If I had a custome frame made, would it have different geometry (why?) or weigh less (how?)?
Personally, I love the aesthetics of some of the custom bikes but I don't see a performance advantage.
"I'm just saying that you can certainly get a better performing bike."
How so?
What role does the frame play in performance, beyond geometry and weight?
If I had a custome frame made, would it have different geometry (why?) or weigh less (how?)?
Personally, I love the aesthetics of some of the custom bikes but I don't see a performance advantage.
07-07-05, 02:12 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by Ken Cox
What role does the frame play in performance, beyond geometry and weight?
If I had a custome frame made, would it have different geometry (why?) or weigh less (how?)?
Personally, I love the aesthetics of some of the custom bikes but I don't see a performance advantage.
If I had a custome frame made, would it have different geometry (why?) or weigh less (how?)?
Personally, I love the aesthetics of some of the custom bikes but I don't see a performance advantage.
".....When I climb a hill, the Rodriquez 'feels' like it's half the weight of the Steamroller. The ride quality can vary dramatically depending on the alloy. Clearly, more of my pedalling effort is directed to the forward motion of the bike and the Rodriguez's frame gives up less to the side-to-side wag of my bottom bracket and lower frame. It's not a nuance thing.....it's in your face.
This has nothing to do with weight (as both bikes weigh about the same) and the geometry of the Rodriquez is more relaxed than the Steamroller....BUT, the Rodriguez is much snappier and more responsive.
Jim
07-07-05, 02:51 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by Ken Cox
Dokushoka wrote:
"I'm just saying that you can certainly get a better performing bike."
How so?
What role does the frame play in performance, beyond geometry and weight?
If I had a custome frame made, would it have different geometry (why?) or weigh less (how?)?
Personally, I love the aesthetics of some of the custom bikes but I don't see a performance advantage.
"I'm just saying that you can certainly get a better performing bike."
How so?
What role does the frame play in performance, beyond geometry and weight?
If I had a custome frame made, would it have different geometry (why?) or weigh less (how?)?
Personally, I love the aesthetics of some of the custom bikes but I don't see a performance advantage.
Last edited by dokushoka; 07-07-05 at 03:18 PM.
07-07-05, 04:21 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by Ken Cox
How so?
What role does the frame play in performance, beyond geometry and weight?
If I had a custome frame made, would it have different geometry (why?) or weigh less (how?)?
Personally, I love the aesthetics of some of the custom bikes but I don't see a performance advantage.
What role does the frame play in performance, beyond geometry and weight?
If I had a custome frame made, would it have different geometry (why?) or weigh less (how?)?
Personally, I love the aesthetics of some of the custom bikes but I don't see a performance advantage.
I know you like your Pista, but you have to realize that it isn't even close to a handmade custom frame. I'm not judging you or anything, but to say that you couldn't get a better bike from a custom builder is completely false.
07-07-05, 04:32 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by Judah
Stiffness = power transfer. The more your bike flexes the less power you are getting to the road.
07-07-05, 05:35 PM
#46
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Building on what jimv and dokushoka wrote: in my talks with Mercian they did tell me to stop thinking in terms of weight and start thinking in terms of ride qualities.
Judah wrote:
"...to say that you couldn't get a better bike from a custom builder is completely false."
Without going back and checking, I don't think I said exactly that.
I think I asked a question and then defended cheap bikes.
Dokushoka, jimv and Judah have answered my question.
That said, I still think my Pista makes a good place to store components and use them until I can get that Mercian (or Bob Jackson, Jonnycycles or Circle A frame) made for me, assuming I ever do so.
At my level of riding, though, I don't feel the flex to which other riders have referred.
I have just recently discovered that my headset has its shortcomings.
My lbs says that the clunks I hear now in my headset existed from the beginning, but that I just ride harder and have more awareness now.
I have my doubts about the ability of custom makers to produce a frame with the qualities described by dokushuka, jimv and Judah (no reflection on dokushuka, jimv and Judah).
I know in my own experience that I sometimes see what I want to see and sometimes hear what I want to hear.
I would need to feel some shortcoming in my Pista frame before I could shell out $1200 for a frame, and that may come with more riding.
I understand that as one refines a bike the last degrees of refinement cost more and more and return less and less.
Still, twelve hundred bucks...y'know?
I would need to have a reasonable expectation of a big improvement in order to justify a single $1200 ugrade.
Ironically, though, I could get behind such an upgrade for aesthetic reasons.
I like lugs.
I mean, I really like lugs.
Judah wrote:
"...to say that you couldn't get a better bike from a custom builder is completely false."
Without going back and checking, I don't think I said exactly that.
I think I asked a question and then defended cheap bikes.
Dokushoka, jimv and Judah have answered my question.
That said, I still think my Pista makes a good place to store components and use them until I can get that Mercian (or Bob Jackson, Jonnycycles or Circle A frame) made for me, assuming I ever do so.
At my level of riding, though, I don't feel the flex to which other riders have referred.
I have just recently discovered that my headset has its shortcomings.
My lbs says that the clunks I hear now in my headset existed from the beginning, but that I just ride harder and have more awareness now.
I have my doubts about the ability of custom makers to produce a frame with the qualities described by dokushuka, jimv and Judah (no reflection on dokushuka, jimv and Judah).
I know in my own experience that I sometimes see what I want to see and sometimes hear what I want to hear.
I would need to feel some shortcoming in my Pista frame before I could shell out $1200 for a frame, and that may come with more riding.
I understand that as one refines a bike the last degrees of refinement cost more and more and return less and less.
Still, twelve hundred bucks...y'know?
I would need to have a reasonable expectation of a big improvement in order to justify a single $1200 ugrade.
Ironically, though, I could get behind such an upgrade for aesthetic reasons.
I like lugs.
I mean, I really like lugs.
07-07-05, 05:45 PM
#47
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Yeah, I don't know why people hate on the pista so much.
P.S. I'm wondering how stiff the Langster is? I know a lot of people here dispise Aluminum, but bang for the buck it's hard to beat well designed Aluminum in the stiffness deapartment (my C-dale CAAD frame was cheap to buy and I don't think I could get steel to be as stiff unless it was custom)
P.S. I'm wondering how stiff the Langster is? I know a lot of people here dispise Aluminum, but bang for the buck it's hard to beat well designed Aluminum in the stiffness deapartment (my C-dale CAAD frame was cheap to buy and I don't think I could get steel to be as stiff unless it was custom)
07-07-05, 05:59 PM
#48
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<i>I would need to feel some shortcoming in my Pista frame before I could shell out $1200 for a frame, and that may come with more riding</i>
Living in the mountains you'll notice the flexiness before most(although I've never ridden a psita that seems to be the consensus)
for a shocking example of how much flex there is next time your on a medium grade hill unclip your right foot and place it on the end of the axle(be careful) now pedal as hard as you can with your left foot. that flexing is why you'll never be able to hand any steel frame that gets ridden down to your grandkids. The higher quality the frame though less flexing. Now try not to think about your frame flexing like that twice every pedal stroke.
Living in the mountains you'll notice the flexiness before most(although I've never ridden a psita that seems to be the consensus)
for a shocking example of how much flex there is next time your on a medium grade hill unclip your right foot and place it on the end of the axle(be careful) now pedal as hard as you can with your left foot. that flexing is why you'll never be able to hand any steel frame that gets ridden down to your grandkids. The higher quality the frame though less flexing. Now try not to think about your frame flexing like that twice every pedal stroke.
07-07-05, 08:13 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by dutret
that flexing is why you'll never be able to hand any steel frame that gets ridden down to your grandkids. The higher quality the frame though less flexing. Now try not to think about your frame flexing like that twice every pedal stroke.
Others know more about this than me, but from what I hear Columbus max tubing was ultra strong and stiff. I guess it wasn't used to much because a 58cm frame came out to 4.75 lbs. I'm no weight weenie so I'd take the extra weight for the durability and possible increase in BB stiffness. Other roadies might like a lighter frame (due to gram counting obsession in the roadie world)
Last edited by 53-11_alltheway; 07-07-05 at 08:44 PM.
07-07-05, 09:54 PM
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I think I'd rather spend $600 on the concept frame and piece the bike together with used goods. It would cost a bit more, maybe $100-200 extra, but it would be a much sweeter ride. I own a fixed austro-diamler and a celeste bianchi, and really adore my bikes, but I'm not a fan of the pista.