Damn you're a youngster. I wonder why the riders on the Pro Tour aren't riding bikes with track geometry since it's so "dope". Just to educate you some, road geometry isn't "slack". A Wabi isn't a gravel bike. And I doubt you've ever stepped foot in a velodrome. Many of us are actual cyclists who go on long road rides. We aren't like the Midnight Ridazz just blowing through LA traffic with green chains, purple rims and trying to avoid being plowed by a car by flat spotting the rear tire because real brakes aren't "dope" :lol:

To update on my issue with no 725 tubing decal, Wabi told me that they put them in an envelope and send it with the bikes because some people don't want it on. I didn't get one with my bike so they're sending one out.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6ade94c9f0.jpg


:thumb:

No no no no we're leaving "arbitrary invocations of what pro road cyclists do" in 2019.

I kinda like this bike
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...74214364e9.jpg

Love my Special. 18lbs of glorious, lugged Reynolds steel. My neo-retro build.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...695031186.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...afa64952a.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2e4331eff.jpeg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...759c56621.jpeg

FWIW, the other day I noticed the track cog was a Surly, not an Andel is listed in the specs. It's a really nice cog.

Surly cogs are made by Andel. They are the same.

Ah, ok.

Bro, Midnight Ridazz hasn't been a thing like since, 2015. And the cool kids have moved from purple rims and green chains to Gravel bikes with disc brakes and suspension seat post.

That said, I like the idea of roadie geo for a track frame, keep it old school.
What bugs me a lot about Wabi is that I look at their sweet Reynolds frames and wonder why they can't use old school semi-horizontal road bike 125 dropouts and a plastic cable guide on the bottom bracket so that folks can tool around on a retro 10 speed if they wanted to.

I have a Special and a Classic. The ride quality, in my opinion, cannot be touched anywhere near the price range. "Comfortable ride" is an understatement. I absolutely love both of mine! The Classic handles more like a sportscar than the Special but it is a very smooth, responsive and predictable handling bike.

I bought both of mine from them when Richard Snook still owned the company. I actually worked with him once upon a time ago in a bike shop in North Carolina. Richard could set up a bike better than anyone I ever worked with...these two are no exception. Wheels were perfect, absolutely perfectly tensioned and trued and keep their true even on rough road. I tweak them every once in a while but that's a minor tweak.



https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2b0add3e5a.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...862ae223dc.jpg

Personally, I think that cars and bicycle's cannot be compared. Some people seem to do that with me to "make fun of" the idea that high level concepts of what people want seem to transfer over.
I think that it completely ignores the fact that bicycles are much, much better for the environment, and that bicycles are, entirely, human powered.
A bicycle is an extension of your body whereas a vehicle is a huge, extremely large, extremely complicated amalgamation of an incredibly large number of moving parts, electronics, even gasoline.
The thought is just kinda... ugly.
Personally, I think that a vehicle should have a mostly utilitarian purpose. Whereas a bicycle can be anything you want it to be.
Some cars are cool, and I appreciate that some of them represent our best engineering, but most cars that can actually go fast shouldn't really be on the streets as th ere is no point to ownign them unless you take l them on a dragstrip or a track.
With the one exception of cars that can handle very well on the twisties (where a mountain raod is the best).

I don't think that you can take high level human concepts and apply them to bicycles in the same way.
Think of it like this:
On a track bike, you're almost totally focused on riding and they don't come alive until you're at or above medium speed. It's only then that you realize how they are basically welded to your body, and how they ride just oh so beautifully.
It's literally an extension of your body at that point.
Now, take a track car. You can say the same thing right? But you're controlling that thing with pedals, and knobs. You're mostly stationary the entire time, you pull and push on things to make this machinism do various tricks and turns.
You're controlling something, i'ts not an extension of you.

I just think that they are completely different philosophies and not comparable on a high level sense unless you literally divide a human beings desires into like 5 categories. If we all lived like that, we wouldn't be human anymore.

Outstanding thinking on track bikes and auto racing👍 I never thought of just hw much you are one single machine on the track bike( single speed). Makes total sense.

They have the exact same geometry.

True, they do. They differ in construction. The Classic is tig-welded and the Special is lugged.



https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/21...g?v=1503686821

CLASSIC, SPECIAL AND LIGHTNING MODELS

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/21...g?v=1574804876

I'm aware of that lol. That doesn't affect the handling.

I knew that you knew that. I was giving more info for folks that like to see the statistics. Handling differences if any can be attributed to a number of things, not simply geometry.

We're probably getting really getting into the realm of implied instead of measured differences, but welds could potentially make a difference in resonance, which could mean that the tig welded frame feels "stiffer", whereas the classic feels more compliant.

My experience would tend to agree with your assessment!

The classic (welded frame) is set up with the Sub-15 wheels (lighter weight), Challenge Parix Roubaix 27mm tires with latex tubes (feel like sew-ups) and a bullhorn bar. The Special (short lugged frame) is set up with drop bars, standard wheels, 30mm Challenge Strada Bianca tires and standard tubes.

The geometry may be the same but the Classic is more responsive, quicker handling and a little less forgiving but still predictable. The Special is a softer ride, very forgiving on all road types and steady as a rail in turns also. They both may be 6' 2" tall, 220 lbs with blonde hair and blue eyes but they are different beasts...at least to me.


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Like what? Two bikes exactly the same except for one having the tubes attached with lugs and the other brazed will handle exactly the same.

Not in my experience.

I only have 34 years of experience. How does lugs make the bike handle different?

[QUOTE=Lazyass;21322600]I only have 34 years of experience. How does lugs make the bike handle different?[/QUOTE

I have 52 years experience riding bikes, who cares? My first was a fixed-gear, a red tricycle, I wish I still had it for grandkids.

If you really want a competent answer, you might post the question on the frame building forum.