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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 07-07-05, 12:19 PM   #1
raygunner
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buyin' bubs: PHIL WOOD or "nos" DURA-ACE ?

Okay ladies & germs, what should I do?!

I wanna build up some really nice wheels.

Spankin' new Phils or spankin' "NOS" Dura-Ace?

Both are pretty much the same price but I can probably snag a pair of Dura-Ace for less because it doesn't seem like alot of people are snatching them up for $300 a set.

The issue I have w/ Phils is that I feel any regular jerk w/ an bike wrench set can remove the wheels. While w/ the Dura-Ace it'd have to have someone w/ a 15mm wrench (and alot of jerks carry those...)

So I'd like to hear your opinions.

And if you'd like to buy me a set of hubs I'd really like to hear from you.
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Old 07-07-05, 12:21 PM   #2
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Bubs is how we say hubs in Chicago. We pronounce "H" with a sharp "B". Imagine Dennis Farina saying it.
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Old 07-07-05, 12:24 PM   #3
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i think anyone looking to steal wheels probably has a an adjustable wrench in their toolkit, so i don't really think that'd be an issue.

my feeling (based on no research) is that phils wills stand up better to the everday abuse of street-riding.
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Old 07-07-05, 12:33 PM   #4
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is there such a thing as a locking skewer/axel type thing? i thought kryptonite had something like that, needs a key to remove the wheel...

oh yeah, phils. depending on rims, bike, and aesthetics. but yeah, phils!
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Old 07-07-05, 12:37 PM   #5
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Are we talking the 7600 hi-flange Dura-Ace hubs here? I'd get those over Phils. I just like them better, my .02.
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Old 07-07-05, 12:40 PM   #6
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I have DA high flange on another set. But I got the set for like $250 awhile back. They have Open Pros and are solid.
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Old 07-07-05, 12:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raygunner
I have DA high flange on another set. But I got the set for like $250 awhile back. They have Open Pros and are solid.
Well, if you've already got a set maybe it's time to change it up.
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Old 07-07-05, 01:05 PM   #8
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They're equally easy to steal - allen set vs crescent wrench.

Me, I like phils.
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Old 07-07-05, 01:06 PM   #9
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Phils baby, Phils.
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Old 07-07-05, 01:21 PM   #10
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Why not lock your wheels with a suitable lock so you don't have to worry (as much) about theft?
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Old 07-07-05, 01:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Why not lock your wheels with a suitable lock so you don't have to worry (as much) about theft?
That's crazy talk.
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Old 07-07-05, 01:26 PM   #12
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Well I do. But it seems like it's an increasing problem and with me being paranoid from my younger years (ie: REEFER ADICT) and I'm just wondering what would be best...
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Old 07-07-05, 01:27 PM   #13
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I've used high- and low-flange D/A on clincher and tubular rims and I love them. I don't have any Phils because I think they're ugly, but it sounds like you need some variety. Go with variety. What's the worst that could happen? If you don't like them, sell them to me at a loss. I won't like them, either, but afterwards I'll be able to back up my opinion with experience.
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Old 07-07-05, 02:27 PM   #14
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buy the dura ace! i like my dura ace better than my phil wood and they look better in high flange.
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Old 07-07-05, 02:32 PM   #15
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I don't understand some of these hub issues.

If I understand correctly, hubs fail primarily because the cogs eventually strip the the hub threads.
Do they fail in some other way?
Like, do the spokes pull through the flange holes?
I ask this not confrontationally but to learn.
How do they fail?

That said, if hubs fail primarily due to the cogs stripping the hub threads, then it seem important, to me, to make sure the cog threads match the hub threads, exactly.
Given that, it would seem imperative to match the cog with the hub, such as one would with a Phil cog and a Phil hub, or a Miche cog with a Miche hub, or a Dura Ace cog with a Dura Ace hub.

In the case of my Pista, I have found that EAI cogs seem to match my no-name hubs perfectly.
They go on and stay on with no issues, so far.

Anyway, I like the Dura Ace hubs because they apparently weigh less than any other hub used on the street.
Similarly, I like the Phil hubs because I expect a perfect match between the Phil cogs and the Phil hub, and they should last forever.

Of course, I have neither a Phil hub nor a Dura Ace hub, and so this represents stuff in my head and not reality.
I'd like to hear from someone who has used these hubs in reality, as opposed to in their imaginations.

Absntr has ridden a Pista in the past and now rides a bike with Phil hubs.

So, in closing: how do hubs fail?
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Old 07-07-05, 02:40 PM   #16
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You sure talk about your Pista alot.
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Old 07-07-05, 02:42 PM   #17
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Both sound like good ideas. And I know a thing about bad ideas.

(flashback)

"I'm tellin you juice...she's screwin' around behind your back. And if I were in your Bruno Magli's, I wouldn't stand for it."
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Old 07-07-05, 02:44 PM   #18
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Hubs fail by either stripping the threads or breaking flanges. With a quality hub, neither is particularly common.

The real question here is about bearings. The DA are super smooth loose ball bearings whereas the Phils are cartridge bearings. I'd be inclined to go with the PW just because I don't like dealing with getting new ball bearings and repacking the hub. Also, I don't know if the DA have replaceable cups but if they're just machined into the hub body, if you get behind on maintenance and let the cups get pitted, there's no fixing that.
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Old 07-07-05, 03:04 PM   #19
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phil phil phil. then put them in the basement so i can steal them from you!
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Old 07-07-05, 03:04 PM   #20
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i would have said the phils a while ago.. but the DAs are super nice after fondeling a pair.. and super light.. phils are starting to make less sense to me..
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Old 07-07-05, 03:59 PM   #21
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I'm inclined to go with high flange DA only because I have a set of Phils now and I'd love to have a set of wheels with some loose ball bearings.

And on another note, the eroticism of this thread is creeping up:

"...fondeling a pair"

"loose ball"

"stripping threads"

"breaking flanges"

"Well, if you've already got a set maybe it's time to change it up."

Yes, I'm just talking crazy today!
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Old 07-07-05, 04:04 PM   #22
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What bout the sealing on the Phils? (bearings, etc)
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Old 07-07-05, 04:04 PM   #23
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A quick note: You can special order a QR conversion kit from Phil, and then you can put you krypto skewers on 'em. Oh yeah, I've seen busted DA's Busted Campy's and Busted other stuff, but never ever ever ever seen a busted Phil.
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Old 07-07-05, 04:17 PM   #24
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Raygunner wrote:

"You sure talk about your Pista alot."

Yes.
I love my Pista.
I consider it the best purchase of my adult life.
I don't have any experience with other fixed gear bikes and their components, so I can't talk too much about them.

Bostontrevor wrote:

"Hubs fail by either stripping the threads or breaking flanges."

Regarding breaking flanges, do high or low flanges make a difference?
Also, when it comes to breaking spokes, do high or low flanges make a difference?
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Old 07-07-05, 04:19 PM   #25
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Didn't Matt Chester bust a Phil? I thought I remembered him mentioning that on his blog...Regardless...No matter how great you build something...SOMEONE will find a way to bust it.

Between DA and Phil though (which is truly a win/win decision), my preference is the Phil's and I always lock my wheels (Ulock through Rear and frame, and mini U on the front wheel and frame). Sure it takes 15 more seconds...but I still have my wheels.
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