I've wanted to ask this question for a couple of years now, so I guess this is the place and time.

I may be wrong, but it seems that I've read somewhere that the NJS people have not certified the complete Campagnolo Pista gruppo for its competitions.

Does anyone here have any info on this, or any answers as to why any governing body of cycling (let alone one of the most prestigious) would fail to include Campagnolo but allow Shimano, Sugino, Hatta, Nitto, Suntour, Suzue, etc.? I'm no track racer, not even close, but even to the layman, this just makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, unless the idea is to somehow elevate other brands (namely Shimano) by forcing keirin racers to use their gear.

From my limited reading and knowledge of the topic, my understanding is that there is a standard for consistency among riders' equipment so that no one has an advantage. But Shimano parts work as well as Campagnolo componentry- the only advantage Campagnolo has is in beauty and craftsmanship- it won't make you faster.

So what's the deal?

campagnolo is not made in japan.

there was, at one time, a campy njs gruppo, but it was discontinued (i THINK because the market was too small, and it was too much of a PITA for campy to keep making it).

tomity races on a set of the campy hubs; the stuff is almost impossible to find.

Nice stuff....

http://www.campagnolo.com/groupsets.php?gid=7&cid=all

and I love the wheels too.

http://www.campagnolo.com/wheels.php?gid=3&cid=9

There are some NJS stamped Campy components, but they're few and far between, most likely sitting on a collectors shelf.
As to Campy not making the NJS cut when Shimano, Sugino, Hatta, Nitto, Suntour, Suzue did- IMO has not much to do with quality, and a lot to do with the economic incentive of a Japanese cycling organization supporting Japanese business.

From what i hear the japanese are quite protective of their domestic products, so they preferred not to certify the Campy group.
However, Campy *did* produce a full NJS-certified for a year or two back in the 90's. It's super rare. but this gem came up on ebay last week:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...165936491&rd=1

Thanks. I knew they had some parts certified (and I know they are rare), but not the complete gruppo.

That's what I figured when I first heard about it (wish I could remember where- I'm sure it was on the Web), but it still must pain the riders a bit to have their choices limited by nationalism. I can almost imagine these guys sneaking into a velodrome in the middle of the night with Campagnolo-equipped bikes, wishing they could use this gear professionally.

I've seen his bike in the FGG. Very nice.

Uh, I don't think so. Campy isn't the end all be all of cycling components.

There is a complete group. They just don't take parts of a group to be certified. They are rare and very hard to get a complete group. Columbus tubing has NJS tubing also and it is being used by the Keirin builders.


S/F,
CEYA!

And decidedly not NJS.

m.

Yeah I hate "fan boys" of any kind that blindly toute superiority of one brand over the other, but in this case you just got to wonder if this isn't happening with the NJS.

I was like that. I used Campy period for all or at least most of my bikes. shimano didn't see anything in my house. suntour and sugino did. I like njS stuff because it is simple old time stuff. we posted many times on this subject .We should make a Keirin sticky to group all this crap together so people can go through before asking questions.

S/F,
CeYa!

First of all, it's not like this is Soviet Japan. Dura Ace and Suzue NJS hubs are the equivalent or anything that Campagnolo is putting out. They don't have a lock on any special manufacturing method.

As for what's happening with NJS, it's not really about mindlessly touting the superiority of one brand over another. NJS is spec'd very conservatively, to minimize the chance of injury to riders and to level the playing field and make the contest about the individual riders. That's why 36 spoke wheels, steel bars, huge gumball helmets, etc.

What I have heard is that, like many things Japanese, there is a good deal of protectionism built into NJS certification. Nobody will admit to it, but I've heard in vague and non-specific ways that Campagnolo had to jump through a lot of hoops to finally get them to acquiesce to their NJS ensemble. Ultimately it just wasn't worth the ongoing headache.

Now that you have said that I can agree that the 20/24 pista wheels will never make the cut.

It's a shame though that the hubs aren't up to spec. It just seems like this wouldn't be tough to accomplish.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this but...

The NJS certification is there to create an equal playing field for the riders. Keirin racing is a gambling sport in Japan so in order to keep the races fair, no single rider should have a technical advantage over another through components. It's not that Campagnolo stuff isn't good enough of doesn't meet the requrirements, it's probably that the NJS group certify 2 or 3 specific crank sets, 2 or 3 different hub sets, a couple chains, and so forth. This allows them to keep a tight reign on components and allow for the fairest game possible. And yes, it is a Japanese sport so it makes total sense that they would keep it to Japanese component makers. There is no point in opening it up to Campagnolo.

Anyone who thinks that an "NJS" stamp means "higher quality" is fooling themselves. NJS has nothing to do with quality. It's about equality on the race track. For better or worse. Some of the stuff is good, some of the stuff is just ok.

EDIT: I just read bostontevors post, so this may be redundant. But, yeah.

Yup. (and now I get to post this again ;) )

Damnit, so much for my plans to go race keirin with campy gear.

I guess I'll stick with my day job.

just the end all be all of road cycling components. and while dura ace NJS stuff may be just as good as campy njs, when it comes to gears, that's just not the case.

//campy fan boy.

True, I am CAMPY 1000% on the road!

S/F<
CEYA!

am i to infer, then, that judah's new kiyo miyazawa frame impliments "keirin spec'd" genius tubing (as opposed to a regular old standard grade genius tubeset)?

yes.